AudioVerse’s booth at ASI.
On September 11, 2024, we published the news about AudioVerse’s removal of all of Dr. Vine’s sermons from their platform. On that same day, we obtained a copy of an email that AudioVerse has been circulating, attempting to clarify their reasons for canceling him. Below is the official statement that Debby Williams (support@audioverse.org) is disseminating on behalf of AudioVerse. The statement accuses Dr. Vine of engaging in fanatical excitement, comparing the church to Babylon, and starting a new organization. You can read the full statement in its entirety below.
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Statement on Conrad Vine’s Removal from AudioVerse
The reason Conrad Vine was removed from AudioVerse is because our Spiritual Integrity Committee does not find him to be in harmony with the Spirit of AudioVerse, which are the guidelines that determine what is posted on AudioVerse.While the committee has appreciated many of Conrad’s presentations over the years, they have also observed a disturbing trend of either careless, reckless, or intentionally subversive statements that are very closely akin to calling the Seventh-day Adventist Church structure “Babylon.” In a message on January 28, 2023, Conrad stated that “…As a worldwide Seventh-day Adventist Church…we entered the pandemic as Protestants, and we exited as a Papal system.” His most recent remarks in the Maine camp meeting suggesting that the Seventh-day Adventist Church and its leadership are so morally compromised that we may need to consider a “para-church movement” that is independent of the governance of the established Adventist denominational structure and that sits in judgment regarding the faithfulness of conferences are a natural progression along the trajectory of this thinking. Despite our hopes for a change in his course, we believe it our duty to act at this time in light of this escalated rhetoric in violation of our stated values.
The position of AudioVerse is clear: We believe that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the final movement delineated in prophecy, and that there will not be a God-led movement to call believers to fidelity to another, or a purer, organization. A careful study of the many offshoot movements of Adventism reveals a disturbing pattern that is closely mirrored by the messages, attitudes, and spirit of Mr. Vine and his adherents. Anecdotally, a member in our committee heard directly from an individual whom he personally brought into Adventism who now intends on leaving the church because of Conrad’s recent messages. We appeal to Mr. Vine and his listeners to consider where the movement is heading. Listen not to what one says, but to what one teaches.
This is not to say members in our committee agree with everything the church ever does. We have a diversity of opinions within our own team regarding the church’s actions and decisions during the COVID pandemic and on numerous other topics. But we are in agreement that the Adventist church is still God’s Remnant Church, that declaring independence from the wider body of believers is not appropriate, and that Conrad’s criticisms go too far and his suggested remedies are such that will result in far greater harm than good.
Finally, and perhaps most importantly, we find Conrad to be out of harmony with clear counsel from the Spirit of Prophecy on these points. Here are just a few references out of many that could be shared:
“Again I say, the Lord hath not spoken by any messenger who calls the only church in the world that keeps the commandments of God, Babylon. True, there is chaff with the wheat; but first gather the chaff and bind it into bundles to burn it, but gather the wheat into the garner. I know that the Lord loves His church. It is not to be disorganized or broken up into independent atoms. There is not the least consistency in this. There is not the least evidence that such a thing will be. Those who shall heed this false message and try to leaven others will be deceived and prepared to receive advanced delusions, and they will come to naught.” 8LtMs, Lt 16, 1893, par. 20
“When men arise, claiming to have a message from God, but instead of warring against principalities and powers, and the rulers of the darkness of this world, they form a hollow square, and turn the weapons of warfare against the church militant, be afraid of them. They do not bear the divine credentials. God has not given them any such burden of labor. They would tear down that which God would restore by the Laodicean message. He wounds only that He may heal, not cause to perish. The Lord lays upon no man a message that will discourage and dishearten the church. He reproves, He rebukes, He chastens; but it is only that He may restore and approve at last.” TM 22.2
“You will take passages in the Testimonies that speak of the close of probation, of the shaking among God’s people, and you will talk of a coming out from this people of a purer, holier people that will arise. Now all this pleases the enemy. We should not needlessly take a course that will make differences or create dissension. We should not give the impression that if our particular ideas are not followed, it is because the ministers are lacking in comprehension and in faith, and are walking in darkness.” 1SM 179.4
“Your mind has been on an unnatural strain for a long time. You have much truth, precious truth, but mingled with suppositions. Your extreme ideas and strong language often destroy the effect of your best efforts. Should many accept the views you advance, and talk and act upon them, we would see one of the greatest fanatical excitements that has ever been witnessed among Seventh-day Adventists. This is what Satan wants.” 1SM 179.5
“Beware of those who arise with a great burden to denounce the church. The chosen ones who are standing and breasting the storm of opposition from the world, and are uplifting the downtrodden commandments of God to exalt them as holy and honorable, are indeed the light of the world…. I tell you, my brethren, the Lord has an organized body through whom He will work… In the place of turning the weapons of warfare within our own ranks, let them be turned against the enemies of God and of the truth… When anyone is drawing apart from the organized body of God’s commandment-keeping people, when he begins to weigh the church in his human scales and begins to pronounce judgment against them, then you may know that God is not leading him. He is on the wrong track.” 3SM 17-18
“Some have been dissatisfied and have said: ‘I will not longer pay my tithe; for I have no confidence in the way things are managed at the heart of the work.’ But will you rob God because you think the management of the work is not right? Make your complaint, plainly and openly, in the right spirit, to the proper ones. Send in your petitions for things to be adjusted and set in order; but do not withdraw from the work of God, and prove unfaithful, because others are not doing right.” 9T 249.2
“We cannot now step off the foundation that God has established. We cannot now enter into any new organization, for this would mean apostasy from the truth.” 2SM 390.1
“There is no need to doubt, to be fearful that the work will not succeed. God is at the head of the work, and He will set everything in order. If matters need adjusting at the head of the work, God will attend to that, and work to right every wrong. Let us have faith that God is going to carry the noble ship which bears the people of God safely into port.” 2SM 390.2
“We should remember that the church, enfeebled and defective though it be, is the only object on earth on which Christ bestows His supreme regard. He is constantly watching it with solicitude, and is strengthening it by His Holy Spirit.” 2SM 396.2
We encourage each of us to remain faithful to the counsel from the Lord.
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Everyone who is canceling Dr. Conrad Vine seems to be saying the same thing. The basic message is to keep quiet, let God take care of everything, and just allow sin and apostasy to go unchecked. No, this attitude is not biblical. They are behaving just like all the false prophets and false shepherds that God’s true prophets forewarned us about.
Not only are AudioVerse and the others who are canceling Dr. Vine not acting like watchmen on the walls of Zion, but they are actually condemning the real watchmen. With silent pulpits and silent leaders, they are fostering a culture of silence that is truly offensive to God and the primary cause of the spiritual crisis we see in the church today. Please prayerfully consider the following divine counsels regarding the grave responsibility that God has given us—which is blatantly disregarded today by AudioVerse and the cancel culture crowd in Adventism:
“In these days He (God) has instituted no new plan to preserve the purity of His people. As of old, He entreats the erring ones who profess His name to repent and turn from their evil ways. Now, as then, by the mouth of His chosen servants He predicts the dangers before them. He sounds the note of warning and reproves sin just as faithfully as in the days of Jeremiah. But the Israel of our time have the same temptations to scorn reproof and hate counsel as had ancient Israel. They too often turn a deaf ear to the words that God has given His servants for the benefit of those who profess the truth. Though the Lord in mercy withholds for a time the retribution of their sin, as in the days of Jeremiah, He will not always stay His hand, but will visit iniquity with righteous judgment” (4T 165).
“God held Eli, as a priest and judge of Israel, accountable for the moral and religious standing of his people, and in a special sense for the character of his sons. He should first have attempted to restrain evil by mild measures; but if these did not avail, he should have subdued the wrong by the severest means. He incurred the Lord’s displeasure by not reproving sin and executing justice upon the sinner. He could not be depended upon to keep Israel pure. Those who have too little courage to reprove wrong, or who through indolence or lack of interest make no earnest effort to purify the family or the church of God, are held accountable for the evil that may result from their neglect of duty. We are just as responsible for evils that we might have checked in others by exercise of parental or pastoral authority as if the acts had been our own” (Patriarch and Prophets, p. 57).
“The plain, straight testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body, responsible for the sins existing in individuals among them. If the leaders of the church neglect to diligently search out the sins which bring the displeasure of God upon the body, they become responsible for these sins” (3T 269).
“The church as a whole is in a degree responsible for the wrongs of its individual members because they countenance the evil in not lifting up their voice against it” (4T 490).
“Today there is need of the voice of stern rebuke; for grievous sins have separated the people from God. Infidelity is fast becoming fashionable … The smooth sermons so often preached make no lasting impression; the trumpet does not give a certain sound. Men are not cut to the heart by the plain, sharp truths of God’s word” (PK 140).
“At the time when the danger and depression of the church are greatest, the little company who are standing in the light will be sighing and crying for the abominations that are done in the land. But more especially will their prayers arise in behalf of the church because its members are doing after the manner of the world” {5T 209.3}
“While others try to throw a cloak over the existing evil, and excuse the great wickedness everywhere prevalent, those who have a zeal for God’s honor and a love for souls will not hold their peace to obtain favor of any … The Spirit of God, which prompts to reproof, is trampled underfoot, while the servants of Satan triumph. God is dishonored, the truth made of none effect” (5T 210).
“The class who do not feel grieved over their own spiritual declension, nor mourn over the sins of others, will be left without the seal of God” (5T 211).
“The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust … Thus “Peace and safety” is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God’s people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together” (5T 211).
“He would teach His people that disobedience and sin are exceedingly offensive to Him and are not to be lightly regarded. He shows us that when His people are found in sin they should at once take decided measures to put that sin from them, that His frown may not rest upon them all. But if the sins of the people are passed over by those in responsible positions, His frown will be upon them, and the people of God, as a body, will be held responsible for those sins. In His dealings with His people in the past the Lord shows the necessity of purifying the church from wrongs. One sinner may diffuse darkness that will exclude the light of God from the entire congregation. When the people realize that darkness is settling upon them, and they do not know the cause, they should seek God earnestly, in great humility and self-abasement, until the wrongs which grieve His Spirit are searched out and put away” (3T 265).
“The prejudice which has arisen against us because we have reproved the wrongs that God has shown me existed, and the cry that has been raised of harshness and severity, are unjust. God bids us speak, and we will not be silent. If wrongs are apparent among His people, and if the servants of God pass on indifferent to them, they virtually sustain and justify the sinner, and are alike guilty and will just as surely receive the displeasure of God; for they will be made responsible for the sins of the guilty. In vision I have been pointed to many instances where the displeasure of God has been incurred by a neglect on the part of His servants to deal with the wrongs and sins existing among them. Those who have excused these wrongs have been thought by the people to be very amiable and lovely in disposition, simply because they shunned to discharge a plain Scriptural duty. The task was not agreeable to their feelings; therefore they avoided it” (3T 265).
“The spirit of hatred which has existed with some because the wrongs among God’s people have been reproved has brought blindness and a fearful deception upon their own souls, making it impossible for them to discriminate between right and wrong. They have put out their own spiritual eyesight. They may witness wrongs, but they do not feel as did Joshua and humble themselves because the danger of souls is felt by them” (3T 266).
“Who are standing in the counsel of God at this time? Is it those who virtually excuse wrongs among the professed people of God and who murmur in their hearts, if not openly, against those who would reprove sin? Is it those who take their stand against them and sympathize with those who commit wrong? No, indeed! Unless they repent, and leave the work of Satan in oppressing those who have the burden of the work and in holding up the hands of sinners in Zion, they will never receive the mark of God’s sealing approval. They will fall in the general destruction of the wicked, represented by the work of the five men bearing slaughter weapons. Mark this point with care: Those who receive the pure mark of truth, wrought in them by the power of the Holy Ghost, represented by a mark by the man in linen, are those “that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done” in the church. Their love for purity and the honor and glory of God is such, and they have so clear a view of the exceeding sinfulness of sin, that they are represented as being in agony, even sighing and crying. Read the ninth chapter of Ezekiel” (3T 267).
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The blindness oh the blindness! !
There will NEVER be a time when Dr Vine’s message will be acceptable, for we are indeed RICH and in need of NOTHING.
Oh for eye salve that we might see !
The spirit that drives them is clearly NOT the Holy Spirit .
As they gnash their teeth at the truths he has presented, they refuse to even acknowledge his doctoral title.
He is simply now Mr Vine.
Oh the spirit of hate that lead the leaders to crucify Christ and strip Him naked,is the same spirit that now drives them to crucify Dr Vine and strip him of all accolades and good name.
It’s time for us all to pray without ceasing.
Let’s stand for truth even as we kneel in prayer.
Let’s sign and share the petition for Dr Vine on change.org.
Amen.
It should be stated, Audio-verse (AV) did not look up the term “Parachurch” as they don’t recognise they are one. All he said was that if the Leaders of the church continue in the blindness of Laodecia.
The leadership does not realise, Church of Philadelphia is who makes it thru which is the Pioneer Adventist.
Amazingly they did not read in TM where it talks about church leadership apostatising as did People, pre flood, or After Israel was in Egypt, or under the wises man in the world being unequally yoked to a pagan princess… or that Ahad married Jezebel (which has her name sakes now) thus 10 tribes apostasy… Judges 19, 20, 21 don’t tell a great story of Benjaminites, and after many chances only a small remnant get out of Jerusalem. Seems like Protestant churches, want to forget Caphas said Let His Blood be on us and our children. Look at Jews of Today? Netanyahu today, Soros, Kissinger and Schwab.
We can add Karl Marx, Saul Alinsky (Hillary Clintons favorate), Sigmund Freud, Milton Friedman, to name a few! God’s Chosen!
The GC and conferences took employer incentives to get The Employees Vaccinated with an mRNA shot, that has changed God’s Creation and mutated it to Mans Creation. These shots did not lower C19 but actually increased it, is causing turbo cancers, cardiovascular clots and Myocarditis, Cardiac infarctions, neurological damage, sterility, still births and auto immune diseases.
Sister White calls Pharmaceuticals Poisons.
Further, student incentives were in the form of Ed Grants 1000, 2000, 5000 and 10,000. None of the universities have turned them away.
We could talk about LaSierra having LGBTQ graduations, Andrews has LGBTQ clubs on campus, bet if we looked into a few of our other campuses …
But here where I live, you would be as shocked as I was to find, Church of Satan having afterschool activity in elementry schools.. but that is only in the public schools, right.?
NAD did not go along with the majority of the divisions saying NO to womens ordination. Or that Sweden has a Openly Gay Pastor.
Sister White says our first priority with Tithe is to pay our Missionary Pastors and Gospel Workers out of tithe so they can feed and cloth themselves and their families.
I don’t recall God ordaining retirement accounts as employee benefits. I think that they are stealing from the parachurch missionaries out there.
Oh, is Dr Vine a Missionary Pastor leading a Missionary group across the 10-40 field?
How does AFM get their funding? Not from GC… it is Dr Vine Ministering for free- asking for a love offering, at the places he speaks at, which goes to AFM of which he along with others get their salaries. At times he takes money out of his pocket to cover shortages.
His children have to pay for Tuition at our colleges, because he does not get the benefits of other conference workers getting differed tuition.
Sister White was also known to divert tithe to the Southern Blacks, who had been inslave.
Camp meeting in her day was not at Hilton or Merritt, it was in a tent!
What was so bad about Dr Vines Sermon? He said
“IF leadership continues to aposticize, that the Members may need to consider…. xyz
Vine did not advocate it going to him. He did not say to keep it.
And WE THE PARISHIONERS NEED TO PRAY FOR OUR LEADERS!
Did in Christ Day- did we have Underground churches?
Luke 22:10 says when you go to the city a man with a water pitcher will lead you to the meeting place.
Hum, how many men went and fetched water. Wasn’t that the womans job?
And the man would lead you to the meeting place…
You mean he did not say got to 327 Harod Avenue off the Kings Hiway?
Sounds like an underground church to me.
Is Dr Vine not the recipient of all of Voice of the Martyrs Writings of Wurmbrand?
Isn’t Dr Vines Wife from Communist Russia?
Do they practice Voodoo, Animism and Cannabalism in some of his mission fields?
These “American Leaders and All of them in between…” have had a very cushy life.
We forget all but John was either stoned or hung on a cross. John, he got off easy- he had boiling oil thrown at him, and was sent as a elderly man to a hard death camp.
Not so long ago, christians were placed on stakes and let die in exposure or better yet were given front row seats to the lighting ceremonies at the Games and Circus.
What are chariot races called today? NASCAR, … people dont go to watch the race, they go to see the accidents!
How many theature events?
There is plenty of sinning for all of us. Anyone regardless if it Ted Wilson or Ted Bundy, they all need a Savior
And the Lier gets the same punishment as the serial sadistic rapist.
I think the Demoniac will be in Heaven… will you?
Are you ready for the time of trouble? I don’t think any of us are…
We are at WAR! We need to cut out this “friendly fire” crud.
Even Patton & Eisenhower did not get along all the time… but in a fire fight, they each had the others 6.
This war is going to get really ugly folks. And frankly I am really tired in my role.
Lets get this Loud Cry going and quit fighting. I want to go home! I dont like it here.
Because we don’t agree, we silence? That’s not Love
Called cancel culture… or the kids call it Ghosting.
I have learned in my experience that enemy is a master of reversal. He accuses those who are standing steadfastly in the truth, casting up them a character in which he is guilty of, all to divert the attention away from himself. Don’t be surprised that this tactic of misrepresenting, accusing, insinuating and the mis-application of scriptures or the testimonies are being used, it has happened to Jesus and His followers.
I have recognized that all the quotes from the SOP that they have used to strengthen their arguments, do not qualify because of a simple understanding of who or what a ‘church’ is.
Audiverse claims “But we are in agreement that the Adventist church is still God’s Remnant Church”.
I have heard this many times preached in the pulpit, and it greaved me so much that i had to remove myself. Because i know that they are committing sins in the church. Disobedience is sin amongst many others.
however, the Word of God and the SOP gives us warnings, showing the backslidings and apostasies of ancient Israel or ‘God’s remnant church’. We are supposed to be God’s remnant church. Israel throughout history, all the way to Jesus’s time were supposed to be God’s remnant church. But it never worked out that way. Not because of the backsliding of the members, no! For God has given us counsel on how to deal with backsliding members. When the leadership, who’s solemn responsibility is to uphold, maintain and protect the foundation of which the organized(structure) church is built on, they themselves start backsliding and refuse to confess and repent, it leads to apostasy and judgment follow.
The structure falls if the foundation is compromised. Even if the structure remains faithful till the end, it will still need a complete overhaul. Why? Because it’s not perfect.
The keepers or watchmen of the foundation are responsible. It is the same with Adam and Eve. The whole earth plunged into sin not because of Eve’s sin, but because Adam – the one whom God put as the leader and gave him dominion over planet earth, sinned. Adam was to uphold God’s Law, which also governed nature. When Adam fell so did nature. This is why earth will need a complete overhaul:
“2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. ”
Revelation 21:2-3 KJV
“This structure is not going to heaven faithful or unfaithful. It is a faithful and honest people(God’s true church) that’s going to heaven. God’s remnant are not entirely found in the SDA. A small group will come out of every institution and every corner of the world, which will make up God’s remnant church.
God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. “Where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them.” [Matthew 18:20.] Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ’s church, for the presence of the high and holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church.” 4LtMs, Lt 108, 1886, par. 17
This quote tells me that God alone can constitute(form, make up) a church, not man nor any institution or even our conferences and leadership can do this. It is clear according to Matt 18:20, if two or three of us gather in His name, which represents His character, which we can only have His character only if we put on His robes of righteousness, which is righteousness by faith, which is obedience by faith, we are considered His church.
*I removed myself from listening to the sermon. I will follow the principles God has given us:
“I was shown the necessity of those who believe that we are having the last message of mercy, being separate from those who are daily imbibing new errors. I saw that neither young nor old should attend their meetings; for it is wrong to thus encourage them while they teach error that is a deadly poison to the soul and teach for doctrines the commandments of men. The influence of such gatherings is not good. If God has delivered us from such darkness and error, we should stand fast in the liberty wherewith He has set us free and rejoice in the truth. God is displeased with us when we go to listen to error, without being obliged to go; for unless He sends us to those meetings where error is forced home to the people by the power of the will, He will not keep us. The angels cease their watchful care over us, and we are left to the buffetings of the enemy, to be darkened and weakened by him and the power of his evil angels; and the light around us becomes contaminated with the darkness.
I saw that we have no time to throw away in listening to fables. Our minds should not be thus diverted, but should be occupied with the present truth, and seeking wisdom that we may obtain a more thorough knowledge of our position, that with meekness we may be able to give a reason of our hope from the Scriptures. While false doctrines and dangerous errors are pressed upon the mind, it cannot be dwelling upon the truth which is to fit and prepare the house of Israel to stand in the day of the Lord.” EW 124.3 – EW 125.1
“There are fearful woes for those who preach the truth, but are not sanctified by it, and also for those who consent to receive and maintain the unsanctified to minister to them in word and doctrine.” 1T 261.3
Why so many SDA’s especially the leaders don’t want to deal with the Divine remedy found in Ezekiel chapter 9?
“Silence these people calling sin by it’s right name and calling for deep repentance and heart searching. ” wasn’t this exactly what the Papal system did all throughout the Dark Ages? Exactly what Israel did to the prophets of old?
I am saddened by all these attacks from Dr. Vine anf from those who sees him as a threat to break down the church going to and fro. They attack each other using the same sword the Bible and SOP and people in between this mess is taking sides causing more conflicts. Isn’t there any other means to handle this situation? How about a sit down heart to heart talk? Isn’t that the counsel we get from Jesus? Talk it out among yourselves in Godly manner, try to understand where each other’s point of view is coming from the come up with an acceptance and apologies afterwards. People are taking sides already and both are claiming to be right. I am truly saddened that we have come to this.
I have discovered that when a doctrine or any position has become a “So says the GC”, then no meaningful talks are able to change anything. The reason seems to be that the GC leadership believe in their hearts that they are the embodyment of the CHURCH. Mark Finley made that clear few days ago. The church shall not fail, he said, meaning the GC shall not fail.
The whole controversy would end IF the GC admitted that they made a BIG mistake and promised not to do it again (John 8:11). They would be respected for that. Nobody is perfect.
Exactly! I am a first generation SDA. I saw through these MrNA injections very quick and was saddened that a housewife (me) could see through this with the Health Message as a base and the very high learned leaders were firm with pharma and government. Form me it was a no brainer. The GC should humble and repent and take responsibility and not cancel culture.
I see Dr. Conrad Vine as a modern day Martin Luther for such a time as this. He hasn’t flinched, has great humility, and the right spirit. I sincerely believe God is with him and is using him. From reading the Spirit of Prophecy I’ve known the day would come when reformers would stand up even in our congregations preaching messages from the Lord, calling the church to repentance.
Dr.Vine like me is under the grace and mercy of God. No human is above the law. I have read the statements from audioverse and from the author of this article. One thing is clear from SOP . In the only command am reading is don’t leave the church or organization. And the other is repent. There’s no call for attacking the disobedient brethren or leaving the conference 🤔.
Stay and pray for each other.
A-men!
Dr.Vine like me is under the grace and mercy of God. No human is above the law. I have read the statements from audioverse and from the author of this article. One thing is clear from SOP . In the only command am reading is don’t leave the church or organization. And the other is repent. There’s no call for attacking the disobedient brethren or leaving the conference 🤔.
Stay and pray for each other.
We must all repent because we are in apostasy
“I saw that the Lord in judgment will, at the close of time, walk through the earth; the fearful plagues will begin to fall. Then those who have despised God’s Word, those who have lightly esteemed it, shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east; they shall run to and fro to seek the Word of the Lord and shall not find it. A famine is in the land for hearing the Word. The ministers of God will have done their last work, offered their last prayers, shed their last bitter tear for a rebellious church and an ungodly people. Their last solemn warning has been given.” {Ms 1, 1857, par. 4}
The “rebellious church” speaks through peace-loving administrators.
So, the official SDA line is don’t worry the established (conference) SDA Church will eventually become purified even though at the moment we can all see it is becoming more and more worldly, and moving away from clear counsel in the Spirit of Prophecy on dress, diet, lifestyle, worship, etc., and rejecting parts of scripture that are out of sync with modern worldly trends and culture.
These evils we see in the established organised conference church today are intrenched, becoming worse, and there is no will or sign of revival and reformation from the leadership. Instead the excuse is given that the church is a democracy and so even though there is apostacy Pastor Ted Wilson and others at the head have no power to bring about change. Then we are told do not worry for the Spirit of Prophecy says God will rectify all the wrongs in the established organised (conference) church. Is this right? Does this even make any sense? Will God do for us what we are able to do for
ourselves? God has given us the choice, responsibility and ability to build the old waste places and repair the breach. God expect us to call sin by its right name and to turn from our wicked ways. God will not go against the will of the conference leaders and churches to bring about revival and reformation and this is why it will never happen!
So, why are the conference leaders saying stick with the conference church and keep returning your tithe? The truth is the established conference church is in great trouble. Due to the apostacies within the membership is tumbling and young people are leaving in their droves; for every one person that joins the church today four leave. Tithe is falling at an alarming rate and so conference workers jobs, pensions, livelihood, property, church establishments, status, etc. are under threat. And so, this is the reason the established conference SDA church is coming down heavy – NOT on worldly pastors – but on anyone like Dr Vine whom they feel threatens the current status quo or structure. The bottom line is money! Anything that threatens the tithe income is dealt with quickly. Notice how recently in the SDA Sabbath School Lesson tithing is being blatantly promoted and the message is clear – keep giving even if the established church is apostacising and fighting against those who are faithful to God’s Word and the proclaimation of the 3Angels Messages. Stop and think about it. It does not make sense to encourage something or support someone who is working against God and the true mission of the SDA Church?
So, where does this leaves us? First of all be clear in your mind that salvation is not found in any corrupted church establishment no matter its title, salvation is found in Christ and His body which is the church. The body of Christ which is the Church is made of faithful believers who have committed themselves to Christ through batisim and are faithfully walking according to God’s revealed will in His Word. God’s Remnant Church according to the Bible in Revelation 12:17 are those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ, which SDAs believe is the Spirit of Prophecy. So, God has His people whom he will save in the established SDA conference church and without. So, do not allow fear and intimidation that we are seeing from within the established conference SDA church stifle your conscious, prevent you from calling sin by its right name, and calling for revival and reformation. And if you get sidelined or cancelled or even disfellowshipped for standing for biblical truth and righteousness remember your name is recorded in the Lambs Book of Life which no earthly institution or man can remove.
Blessings
You spoke my words brother, thank you.
Agree
It’s one thing to STAY IN God’s remnant church and “stand for the right though the heavens fall”, yet quite another to stand and contradict what God has revealed to His church.
So many act as if God didn’t/doesn’t know about the apostacies taking place in HIS church at all times, and they show their distrust in God to deal with HIS church in His way and time.
He has told us:
1. If matters need adjusting at the head of the work He will right every wrong. Why do so many think and act as if they have be like Saul of Tarsus and separate the wheat from the tares so God’s church will be pure?
2. Jesus said the wheat and the tares will grow TOGETHER until the harvest, and the harvest is at the end of the world. And…He does the separating, not us.
3. The Bible lists some things which God hates, and:
“An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations;
feet that be swift in running to mischief;
a false witness that speaketh lies;
and he that soweth discord among brethren.” Prov. 6:18,19
We have been told to stay on the ship. It is God’s ship, and He will bring it safely to Port!
Do we believe Him, or not?
Remember: Jesus Himself was in the boat with His disciples during a terrible storm. They were terrified to the point that they woke Jesus up and asked Him, “Carest Thou not that we perish?” Was He going to let them perish as long as they were on the boat with Him—no matter how bad the storm got? NO! NO! NO! Look up the story and see what Jesus said to them. Did Jesus take care of the storm? Did He take them safely to port? YES!
Why do we allow Satan to misplace our faith in Christ, and His promises to His church?
Pastor Conrad Vine was wrong in saying (paraphrasing here) that If the leaders take a stand against our conscience again that we may have a right to start a para-church movement, and divert our tithes a conference that is standing for the truth.
We need to put/keep our faith in God, and test the words of any man/conference to see if they agree with what God has revealed to us. Christ prayed for us to be one as He and the Father are one. We can’t be if some are in the boat and some are outside during the storm, and the worst hasn’t even hit. I for one, with His help do not intend to bail out.
Jesus, whom we say is our Saviour from sin and Lord to obey chose our name:
“Seventh-day Adventist”!
Why would I turn my back on Him and HIS church when He has told me through His Holy Spirit that “…it is the ONLY thing on this earth upon which He bestows His supreme regard”?
Those who stay in the boat will be blessed, unless they die first, to see Christ “work to right EVERY wrong”, and will see Christ as He stands at the gates to the Holy City, New Jerusalem when “…He shall see of the travail of His soul, and shall be satisfied.” Those who don’t will be swept away with the storm.
It’s getting stormy! I want to be in the boat with Jesus the only True Pilot, not in the sea of doubt or even on shore with those who chose their own way.
I pray that we pray more earnestly for our leaders, and for each other; to stand for and share His wonderful truth with the lost, while we wait on the Lord to finish His shaking and separating–even in HIS church.
We may not agree with each other on everything, but if we truly love the Lord and His truth, we will be found of Him loving, praying and even crying for each other. It will make a difference. I know. I was one who allowed Satan to slide her out for many years, but thanks be to God for His love and mercy through the prayers of Godly parents and friends in the boat praying for me, He once again threw me His lifeline and pulled me back in. Just think: if all who like me that had bailed would grab onto His lifeline and allow Him to pull them back in, and we cling to His warnings and words of comfort, and pray earnestly too be united as He did…What a day that will be when our Jesus we shall see!!!!
Please, Dear Father in Heaven: In the name of Jesus help us not to fail; teach us to love each other even if we are not doing your will, and let You judge every heart, while we stand for your truth, and especially when we must judge the fruit we see. May we see the lost as You do: “not willing that any should perish”. May Your mission be our mission. And please, please, please, as Jesus told His disciples when they asked Him about the sign of His coming and of the end of the world: “Let no man deceive you”, as we know that if we are it will be at the loss of our own souls, because those who are or become deceived, like Eve was, don’t know it. Please give us true discernment as we study Your word. Thank You, Father! In Jesus name I ask this. A-men!
Question: What does the Bible say in Jude 1:3 we are to contend for as faithful believers? The SDA Conference Church? Or the “Faith” God delivered to us?
The Word of God says unequivocally that we are to contend for the faith! And as a faithful SDA we will do just this. We will contend for those biblical truths / the three angels messages that God raised up the SDA movement in 19th century to give.
Where in the Bible or in the Spirit of Prophecy does it say we are to contend for, protect, preserve, and support a system or institution that is deliberately working against the mission and truths God revealed to the SDA movement? What do I mean? Let me give you an example of some of what’s going on to remove the shackles from your eyes.
In 2013 a group of SDA members who attended conference churches decided to use their own money and purchase and distribute thousands of copies of the full version of The Great Controversy (GC) book by EG White in order to proclaim the last message of warning to a dying world that God raised up the SDA Church to give and to help finish the work and hasten the coming of Jesus. As the missionary endeavour began to grow and became more prominent it came to the attention of senior conference officials at the General Conference and a conference representative was sent to meet with one of the members of the group distributing the GC books. The conference reprimanded the group for distributing the GC books and said they should cease as the local conference had no policy or plan to circulate the GC. The conference representative also threatened the group member saying if they continued then the church would banish them. When the group refused to stop sharing The Great Controversy books it received many more attacks by the conference.
Question: Who or what is God’s Remnant Church or true Seventh-day Adventist? Is is the conference and its members who are opposed to the circulation of the GC books and did evil acts to hurt those doing God’s work? Or is those that are doing the will of God? (Read Matt. 7:1)
One of the ways the Roman Catholic Church controls their members is by making them believe that there is no salvation outside of their communion. Is the same ploy being applied within the SDA conference church today? That the SDA conference church cannot err, regardless of the apostacies we see and which are getting worse it can never falter. And that everyone who calls out the apostacies in the conference and its churches and refuses to support these institutions which are now clearly working against God’s cause and the very mission of the SDA Church are wrong!
I don’t believe the SDA Church will ever fall as God told us so through EG White. In the end the SDA Church will triumph by faithfully delivering the three angels message and paving the way for the return of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.
Question: will that SDA Church be the current institution that is tied up with the Governments of the land so much so that when Covid was around the SDA conferences put their pastors on furlough and went to the Government with cap in hand for money to pay their workers. The General Conference has has also compromised and incoporated policies to fit in with worldy humanistic equality and diversity laws.
Question: Is this the conference SDA Church that will not fall? Or is the reference to the SDA Church not falling a reference to those people who are contending for and true to the SDA faith delivered to the SDA pioneers?
Do not be like the official SDA conference which only quotes EG White writings to justify its apostacy and to control the week minded members that are surface readers. How comes we hear absolutely nothing from the conference regarding what EG White says about worldly worship styles pervading our churches in these last days; the fact that SDA pastors shouldn’t be a meat eaters; about dress reform; about reverence in the sanctuary etc. etc. etc. But the conference and some members are quick to tell you about the importance of retuning tithe even though there is apostacy in the conference church and blatant and direct opposition against the truth. They are quick to cancel Dr Vine and remind us about what EG White says about staying aboard the vessel (implying the conference church is the only vessel) as it suits the narrative. And they were quick to come down heavy and threaten that small group for faithfully circulating The Great Controversy and spreading the SDA message because they felt it would bring unwanted attention to them.
May God help us SDAs not to be deceived in these last days, but to put God and His Word first.
It amazes me how Audio Verse uses these Ellen G. White writings out of context.
Will they use the same method with the Bible?
Very simply put…
The “Wheat and the Tares” example covers Church reaction for hypocrisy or secret unconversion, not open rebellion.
I Corinthians 5 explains what Churches are expected to do with open rebellion.
Leadership gets no higher pass than laity.
Too hasty on AudioVerse part. We see how polarizing certain issues are. Women’s Ordination and now our response to the COVID vaccinations. Just because you can cancel someone doesn’t mean you should. Especially when the truth seems to be manifesting on the side of how dangerous this untested vaccine really was. Vaxxers had the power and funding. Now we are realizing how dangerous the whole agenda was.
Cancelling an honest and accurate voice will be seen as a very hasty political move.
REMOVE THIS ROGUE STATEMENT ‘The Seventh-day Adventist Church places strong emphasis on health and well-being. The Adventist health emphasis is based on biblical revelation, the inspired writing of E.G. White (co-founder of the Church),
“” and on peer-reviewed scientific literature.””
As such, we encourage responsible immunization/vaccination, and have no religious or faith-based reason not to encourage our adherents to responsibly participate in protective and preventive immunization programs. We value the health and safety of the population, which includes the maintenance of “herd immunity.”
AND ALL WILL BE WELL. WELL ACTUALLY NO, ALL WILL NOT BE WELL. REMOVE THE MANY OTHER ROGUE STATEMENTS eg CLIMATE CHANGE etc AND THEN ALL WILL BE WELL.