It is true that how we worship is just as important as who we worship. In John 4:23–24, Jesus explains that the Father seeks a particular kind of worship and that we are not free to choose how we should approach Him. When it comes to worship and music, some of our churches have gone out of their way to appeal to today’s entertainment-obsessed society with an “anything goes” philosophy, which demonstrates that many have lost their focus on what is acceptable to God.
Worship has evolved into theatrical productions, with stage actors giving skillfully composed musical performances. These contemporary, dynamic worship services are anything but pleasing to God when compared to the heavenly music sung by angels. Churches, camp meetings, and youth events all across the world have embraced a bedlam of confusion and are calling it worship to our heavenly Creator.
“Let God’s people act so that the world will see that Seventh-day Adventists are an intelligent, thinking people, whose faith is based on a surer foundation than the bedlam of confusion” (Selected Messages, Vol. 2, p. 24).
As more and more churches and conferences seek to reinvent their worship services, we need to understand clearly that a bedlam of confusion has never been part of the Seventh-day Adventist Movement and never will be. The increasing worldliness in our churches and the Hollywood-style entertainment in our worship services are a result of a lack of understanding of Seventh-day Adventism. The bedlam of confusion has always existed, but it was never part of our movement.
Ellen White was once waiting for a boat, and the seating area was located in close proximity to a “beer and wine garden.” She described the music, noise, and dancing and was astonished that even “pleasure lovers” would approve of such a “great demonstration.” She wrote:
“The performer was playing upon his fiddle and going through all the grotesque movements of a clown. He acted in my sight like the fools I have read about that are in kings’ courts. After he had ceased singing, then there was a great demonstration: clapping of [hands], stomping of feet—for there was a board platform—and thumping of canes. I was astonished that this kind of thing should delight the taste of even pleasure lovers … Drink beer, brandy, and wine, dancing, and smoking.” (Manuscript, 33, 1886)
Satan is behind this kind of musical demonstration. Satan knows music very well, and he uses it to ensnare us:
“When turned to good account, music is a blessing, but it is often made one of Satan’s most attractive agencies to ensnare souls” (Messages to Young People, p. 295).
“Some think that the louder they sing the more music they make; but noise is not music.” (Evangelism, p. 510).
The bedlam of noise is more similar to what you hear in drunken bars than any early Adventist church service. But through a number of fanatical movements, Satan tried to bring his chaos into our meetings. James White described the worship service during the Exeter Camp Meeting in Massachusetts and mentioned the noise, shouting, and great excitement that attended the meetings. He links these displays with fanaticism.
“There was upon the Exeter camp-ground a tent from Watertown, Massachusetts, filled with fanatical persons, as briefly described above. At an early period in this meeting, they attracted much attention by the peculiar style in which they conducted their seasons of social worship in their tent. These were irregular, very lengthy, frequently extending into hours of intermission and rest, continuing nearly all night, and attended with great excitement, and noise of shouting and clapping of hands, and singular gestures and exercises. Some shouted so loud and incessantly as to become hoarse, and silent, simply because they could no longer shout, while others literally blistered their hands striking them together” (Life Incidents, p. 157).
In his same book, James White compares this demonstration with the Midnight Cry of the Advent Movement. He made a point of contrasting what God was doing with what these fanatical movements were doing:
“As to the character of the work which resulted from giving what was called the midnight cry, it evidently was the special work of God. It was not, as many supposed, the result of fanaticism. Because the work was marked with sobriety, humility, solemnity, reverence, self-examination, repentance, confessions and tears, instead of lightness, exaltation, trifling, irreverent expressions, self-justification, pride in spiritual things, voluntary humility and will worship, which generally characterize the conduct of fanatics” (Life Incidents, pp. 168, 169).
The contrast couldn’t be any clearer, and James White is talking about “worship.” When God leads, there is solemnity, reverence, repentance, and tears. Satanic agencies working through fanaticism always display lightness, exaltation, trifling, irreverence, self-justification, and pride.
In 1893, Ellen White contrasted the worship services of the Seventh-day Adventist Church with those of the Salvation Army. Notice how Sister White described the unwelcome behaviors of jumping, gesticulations, and ridiculous performances:
“Quite a number of the Salvation Army were present on these occasions. They may learn that meetings can be held without drum or instrumental music, and without the jumping and the gesticulations and ridiculous performances to create a laugh and remove all solemnity. Our meetings have been surprisingly orderly, and we know much prejudice will be swept away, and there will be a different impression left upon minds in regard to Seventh-day Adventists, than has hitherto prevailed” (Letter 68, 1893).
Ellen White was shown in 1901 that Satan was once again attempting to introduce false worship styles into Adventism with the strange work that was just then developing in Indiana. Elder S. N. Haskell wrote to Sister White describing the worship services along with the music, shouting, and drums:
“There is a great power that goes with the movement that is on foot there. It would almost bring anybody within its scope, if they are at all conscientious, and sit and listen with the least degree of favor, because of the music that is brought to play in the ceremony. They have an organ, one bass viol, three fiddles, two flutes, three tambourines, three horns, and a big bass drum, and perhaps other instruments which I have not mentioned. They are as much trained in their musical line as any Salvation Army choir that you ever heard. In fact, their revival effort is simply a complete copy of the Salvation Army method, and when they get on a high key, you cannot hear a word from the congregation in their singing, nor hear anything, unless it be shrieks of those who are half insane. I do not think I overdraw it at all.” (S. N. Haskell to EGW, September 25, 1900, EGW Biography, Vol. 5, p. 102)
Mrs. White decided to leave Australia and attend the General Conference Session in 1901 to speak about this matter. Sister White didn’t remain inactive or neutral in the midst of grave apostasy. No, she took action to prevent these errors from developing further in the church. Leaders from Indiana who had accepted the bedlam of confusion and were attempting to spread it under the guise of the Holy Spirit were present at the 1901 General Conference Session. Ellen White gave the following scathing rebuke during the session:
“In the period of disappointment after the passing of the time in 1844, fanaticism in various forms arose … One could not tell what was piped or what was harped. Some appeared to be in vision, and fell to the floor. Others were jumping, dancing, and shouting. They declared that as their flesh was purified, they were ready for translation. This they repeated again and again. I bore my testimony in the name of the Lord, placing his rebuke upon these manifestations” (General Conference Bulletin, April 23, 1901).
“The manner in which the meetings in Indiana have been carried on, with noise and confusion, does not commend them to thoughtful, intelligent minds. There is nothing in these demonstrations which will convince the world that we have the truth. Mere noise and shouting are no evidence of sanctification, or of the descent of the Holy Spirit. Your wild demonstrations create only disgust in the minds of unbelievers“ (General Conference Bulletin, April 23, 1901).
“The Lord desires to have in his service order and discipline, not excitement and confusion. We are not now able to describe with accuracy the scenes to be enacted in our world in the future; but this we do know, that this is a time when we must watch unto prayer; for the great day of the Lord is at hand. Satan is rallying his forces. We need to be thoughtful and still, and to contemplate the truths of revelation. Excitement is not favorable to growth in grace, to true purity and sanctification of the spirit.” (General Conference Bulletin, April 23, 1901).
Where is the voice of stern rebuke that should also denounce these fanatical demonstrations sweeping Adventism ? Pentecostalism is harming our churches while biblical truth and worship standards are being abandoned. Many churches have transformed worship sessions into pure entertainment in an effort to draw in young people. Sacred worship is trivialized, dress becomes less reverent, music becomes worldlier, emotional highs become the new goals, and our distinctive truths are lost sight of. When worldly things become our greatest focus, we lose sight of the things of God.
A key component of the Adventist faith is the call in the first Angel’s Message that says: “Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters” (Revelation 14:7). This is a call to embrace true worship and reject the bedlam of noise.
“The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time … A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirit’s working” (Selected Messages, Vol. 2, p. 36).
We are rejecting the First Angels’ Message with regards to true worship. A bedlam of noise is taking over. Through ecumenism, many have rejected the Second Angel’s Message and the call to come out of Babylon. And since so many people are now unsure of what the mark of the beast is, we don’t even want to share the Third Angel’s Message. How can we ever give the Loud Cry message under the Latter Rain when this work combines all three messages?
This is exactly where the bedlam of confusion is taking us. Any movement that would unseat our biblical form of worship as the central act in Adventism is out of harmony with Revelation 14:6, 7, the working of the Holy Spirit, and the will of God. Loud demonstrations, dancing, jumping, shouting, theatrics, and spectacles have never had a place in true worship within Adventism and never will.
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Pr Roman,
The Holy Spirit is withdrawing from the SDA Church step by Step. If that is Happening, why do you ask the question how is the denomination supposed to Give the Loud Cry? Is this Not Evidence that God has Divorced the Church? If God has Divorced the SDA Denomination how is that Denomination Supposed to Give the Loud Cry?
Pr Roman the Wild Displays are going to get worse and worse and more pagan.
The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time. Better never have the worship of God blended with music than to use musical instruments to do the work which last January was represented to me would be brought into our camp meetings. The truth for this time needs nothing of this kind in its work of converting souls. A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirit’s working.
When the camp meeting is ended, the good which ought to have been done and which might have been done by the presentation of sacred truth is not accomplished. Those participating in the supposed revival receive impressions which lead them adrift. They cannot tell that they formerly knew regarding Bible principles.
Selected Messages 2 pg. 37
Very soon Adventists are going to worship who they think is God in a State of Nudity, even before Sunday Law Legislation I believe. Quote from Maranatha the Lord is Coming August 14.
No encouragement should be given to this kind of worship. The same kind of influence came in
after the passing of the time in 1844. The same kind of representations were made. Men became
excited, and were worked by a power thought to be the power of God. . . . 234.3
Men and women, supposed to be guided by the Holy Spirit, held meetings in a state of nudity.
They talked about holy flesh. They said they were beyond the power of temptation, and they
sang, and shouted, and made all manner of noisy demonstrations. . . . Satan was moulding the
work, and sensuality was the result. The cause of God was dishonoured. Truth, sacred truth, was
levelled in the dust by human agencies. . . . 234.4
In the Omega Debauchery will also be the Result.
I agree.
It is a difficult thing to come to grips with the reality that the present SDA denomination is the modern manifestation of Jerusalem of old. Jerusalem and all of Judah was warned time after time by God through his prophet Jeremiah, but the leadership would not listen. Because the leadership did not listen, the people also followed blindly along and stood within the walls of the city, even after God had instructed them to leave. What was the result? Their destruction. We are informed of the following:
“To the period just prior to the appearing of the Son of man, the prophecies of Scripture point, and here their warnings and threatenings pre-eminently apply.” RH September 25, 1883, par. 6
Thus, we can of a certainty know that the message God gave to Jeremiah was intended first and foremost for the present Seventh-day Adventist denomination and not only for Judah and Jerusalem of old. In the face of the continued rejections by SDA officials and pastors to lead out in reform and repentance, and instead doubling down in apostacy, God has the following word to say to the leaders and the membership of the modern Judah/Jerusalem:
Jeremiah 21:8-10 And unto this people thou shalt say, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I set before you the way of life, and the way of death. (9) He that abideth in this city shall die by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence: but he that goeth out, and falleth to the Chaldeans that besiege you, he shall live, and his life shall be unto him for a prey. (10) For I have set my face against this city for evil, and not for good, saith the LORD: it shall be given into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall burn it with fire.
The previous brother is right… the Spirit of God has withdrawn from the SDA corporate denomination. The evidences are overwhelming and will only increase with time. Why has this happened? Let Jeremiah inform us of the particulars as given to him by God:
Jeremiah 1:16 “And I will utter my judgments against them touching all their wickedness, who have (#1) forsaken me, and have (#2) burned incense unto other gods, and (#3) worshipped the works of their own hands.”
Jeremiah 2:11 “Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit.”
Jeremiah 2:19 “Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast forsaken the LORD thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord GOD of hosts.”
Jeremiah 4:22 “For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.”
Literally dozens of times, God says that the SDA denomination has changed their god, they have forsaken Him, they have no knowledge of Him, they burn incense to other gods, etc. This prophecy was written for our time. It has it’s pre-eminent application right now, “just prior to the appearing of the Son of Man.” This is not a riddle, nor is it symbolic. God is literally informing SDA’s that we must return to Him and no longer “abide in this city [the SDA denomination]. If we refuse to heed the instruction given by God to us through Jeremiah and instead fool ourselves, like the inhabitants of old Jerusalem, into thinking that God will preserve the SDA city and he will work a great wonder to rescue the denomination (this is what king Zedekiah and his men thought – see Jeremiah 21:2) and thus remain tied with cords to an apostate denomination, we will die, only this time, it’s for keeps.
Brother Roman is doing an important work on this website. The warning needs to be given so that people may have conscience regarding the condition of the denomination. I have faith that one day, the message will be given loud and clear from Pastor Roman that to remain in the SDA city is to remain in an apostate system which has codified a false God into their creed statement (See FB#2) so that they might forget who God is. To continue within the walls of modern day Jerusalem is to support and encourage the SDA system in its apostacy, and it will result in death. As long as I’m able, I’ll continue to exhort at every opportunity in the hopes of helping at least one other see what their duty is in order to truly be identified as God’s people – true Seventh-day Adventists. First and foremost, we must return to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. We must return to the God of our founders. Who is that God? Scripture reveals Him (not them) clearly:
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
—who is this “one God?” Paul tells plainly – 1 Timothy 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
—see also Ephesians 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 8:4-6 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. (5) For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) (6) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Scripture is clear that God is an individual, a Him. His identity is the Father. His name is Jehovah (YHWH). He has one literal, only begotten Son. His name is Jesus (Yahshua). Jesus is divine because he is the literal Son of God and He therefore possesses all the attributes of Godhood by inheritance, but that does not make him the God of scripture. Only the Father is identified as such. This is the God that Jeremiah informs us we have forgotten. This is the God unto whom we must return. When we do so, it is not possible to continue under the banner of a denomination that declares they worship a different god which is mysteriously comprised of three persons; for that would be no different than discovering the truth regarding the Sabbath, yet continuing to attend Sunday services. When the truth regarding the god of the SDA corporate denomination is comprehended, it explains why Brother Andy Roman has a full time job trying to keep up with all the reports of apostacy…no virtue can be found where false god’s are worshipped, thus the acting out of abominations is the natural and only reasonable result.
Eternal life is not offered to those that worship a false three-in-one god any more than it is offered to worshippers of Baal.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Amen!
The 3 Angels message:
True God = worship the father who made the heavens and the earth
True Church = Babylon has fallen and ALL have drank of her cup
True worship = keeping the commandments of Gods and faith OF Jesus
This can only be true if you believe in the One True God and his only begotten Son.
Praise God for those watchmen who are sounding the alarm within the gates. Soon the message will go out to all Judea, then Samaria and then the world!
Brother Marcus – this is a reply to your comment below from July 8 at 5:13 PM
Many are called, but few are chosen… Mat 22:14
It is refreshing and reaffirming to hear from someone that is being led in the same direction in their studies of scripture.
I agree with your conclusion that the message must first be presented to the fallen SDA denomination before it can go out to the world. This has been God’s way ever since the beginning. This is how it was in apostolic times. First, he tries over and over and over to call his wayward people back. When they will not listen, then the message goes out to others who will listen.
Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
The cycle will repeat itself now in the last days and I’ve seen it described in the book Early Writings, in the chapters “The Advent Movement Illustrated,” and “Another Illustration.” There Sister White tells us that the first angel’s message (which is a call to the worship the true God) goes to the Advent people; then the second angel’s message also goes to the Advent people – each can do their own math on why the SDA denomination would need to the hear the second angel’s message (hint: it has a lot to do with what is reported on in this website). Sadly, Sister White says that those that reject the first angel’s message consisting of a call to worship the true God cannot see or comprehend the second angel’s message. This is in large part due to the leadership going around binding the people with cords and fastening them tight, while declaring repeatedly, “We have the truth,” and “God is with us.” We can see this taking place even now, and alas, most do not even recognize that they are bound by cords.
I believe that we are presently living in the time of the second angel simply because I see both messages being given and am striving to join my voice with that of the angel’s. EGW then describes the third angel’s message as going to the world, not to the advent people. Could it be that it goes to the world because the time of the SDA denomination will have by then passed (a.k.a the close of probation for the SDA denomination – a.k.a. “your house is left unto you desolate”), while the true church of God, those that keep his commandments, will have separated from the corrupt denominational corporation just as Sister White describes in those chapters and throughout the book Early Writings?
The interesting thing about all of this is, if the understanding of the sequence of events is correct, that this is all taking place PRIOR to a national Sunday law! Consider how significant this is in light of how every “present truth” SDA group talks about the NSL nearly every Sabbath service and how that will be our (SDA’s) great final test. I believe that is only partially correct. It is true, all true SDA’s will confront the Sunday law, but our Sabbath test is taking place right now. We are being evaluated to see whether we truly honor the Sabbath. Do we guard its edges? Do we refrain from indulging in worldly activities and even from speaking about unconsecrated subjects? I personally think that Sabbath keeping extends beyond the seventh day and includes annual Sabbaths. Some might think that our Sabbath test is too easy to truly be a test, but perhaps our test is even more difficult in that it is a test of our unstressed, everyday/common devotion to God, and not a fall on your knees with gut wrenching tears sort of test. Do we choose to honor God with all our being when life is at its easiest and best? I think this seems like something that God would want to show to the angels and the unfallen inhabitants of other worlds.
If at the time of the installation of a national and international Sunday law, probation will have by then already closed for the SDA denomination, then how can the Sunday law be our great test? My opinion is that we have misunderstood much of what EGW has to say on the subject in that she referred to the Sunday law as the great test for God’s people, and we immediately jump to the conclusion (perhaps arrogantly) that we SDA’s alone are God’s people. But Christ said that he has other sheep which are not of this fold. Ultimately, God’s people includes those Catholics, Agnostics, Atheists, even Luciferians, that at the eleventh hour make their choice to stand with God’s other people (including true SDA’s). These 11th hour workers receive the same wages as those who worked through the heat of the day.
We as SDA’s have extensive knowledge about the events which will take place surrounding the NSL. That knowledge should be used now to build up our faith in preparation for the fearful events to come. The test that Sister White describes at the time of the Sunday law is for the people who previously had no knowledge about these truths, and in the very moment when the greatest tribulation that has ever been seen on earth is beating down the door of God’s people’s house, those who didn’t previously know the truth will have to make their decision whether to join the *SMALL* group of maligned and persecuted Sabbath keepers. Now we can see a great and fearful test.
In my opinion, the truths that we who are alive at the end of time will necessarily have to embrace in order to become naturalized citizens to the Kingdom of Heaven will include, though not necessarily be limited to:
-Who is the true God of the Bible (first angel’s message),
-Who is his literal only begotten Son that gave his life as a ransom for us (still part of/connected to the first angel’s message),
-What commandments has God given regarding his Sabbaths (worship – which is still part of the 1st angels message),
-Separate from false systems of worship – Babylon (obviously the second angel’s message, but remember that it goes first the SDA denomination)
-Not to accept the mark of the beast (only goes to the world at large)
As I share these thoughts with other SDA’s and literally beg them to study this from scripture and EGW, I frequently get a similar reaction. They believe me to be deceived and a deceiver or else a loony with too many words. What they frequently fail to understand is that those of us that are studying these things and seeing the urgent need for repentance and reform, first and foremost for the worship of the wrong god, started from the very position that they occupy – card carrying Seventh-day Adventist denomination members, even church elders, treasurers, sabbath school teachers, pathfinder directors, etc. (been there, done all of that). It was only through many tears and the agony of realizing how far we have strayed away from true worship that we have come to be able to reach out to others that they might also see the true condition of the modern denomination. Sadly, most do not want to see. They don’t want their comfortable boat ride to be rocked… all they can say is “stay in the boat,” but they don’t realize which boat that is supposed to be.
Again, “Many are called, but few are chosen… ” Mat 22:14
Our job is to continue the call of Jeremiah until such time as God utters the fearful words:
Jeremiah 7:16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee. (See also Jeremiah 11:14 & 14:11-12)
I agreed with you until you got to the point that there are not three persons in the Godhead!!! EGW clearly states that there are three separate persons in the Godhead. Father, Son, AND Holy Spirit. Please don’t fall for the lies that are being spread. Go to YouTube, and watch the sermon by Passard Dean, on April 1, 2023 at the Wesley Chapel Church in Florida. He uses all his texts from the Bible showing that the Holy Spirit does exist and is a real person.
We are also to never leave the organized SDA church as long as it exists. EGW clearing states that it looks like the church is going to fall, BUT IT DOES NOT!!! If you do either one of these, deny the Holy Spirit as the third person of the Godhead, or leave the organized SDA church, I fear that you will be lost……………..
Please study this matter for yourself sister Linda. Don’t go to pastor such and such for answers, for those pastors are only men and are therefore capable of leading people down an incorrect path. Go to Scripture to find out what the issue is. This is what I tried to do in my previous post. God has laid it out plainly so that all may understand, but just like in ancient times, it is possible to convince ourselves that apostacy isn’t happening in the SDA church. That’s what the majority of Judah’s citizens did and they suffered the judgment of God just as if they were themselves the ones enticing the nation into the practice of idolatry and wickedness. Are you honestly able to believe that the SDA denomination has not fallen into apostacy and idolatry? Isn’t it painfully obvious? In the face of the ever mounting evidence that the denomination has sealed her doom by her wickedness, how can you rationalize away the prophecy of Jeremiah as if it were of none effect? You say we must never leave the organized SDA church, but where do you get that from? This is the same thing that the Jewish leaders said to the citizens of Jerusalem both times just prior to it’s destruction. You quote Sister White to support your position, but the quote is misused in that you have assumed that “church” means the SDA denomination. What about the following quote?:
God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. “Where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them.” [Matthew 18:20.] Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ’s church, for the presence of the high and holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church. 4LtMs, Lt 108, 1886, par. 17
Scripture is crystal clear that there is a Holy Spirit. It’s called holy because it is the Spirit of God (a term also used in scripture). There is no controversy over the existence of God’s Spirit. The question is whether scripture explicitly informs us in clear terms that the Holy Spirit is a separate individual, which together with the Father and the Son comprise a threefold, triune god called the trinity. Obviously, this isn’t in Scripture. Then what is plainly stated in scripture? Texts were previously provided informing us that there is one God, a singular individual, who is the Father in heaven. This cannot and must not be ignored regardless of what an army of pastors may say.
If the plain statement of scripture contradicts what we think is doctrine, then rest assured, that the contradiction is not in the Bible, nor is it in the writings of Sister White, but rather it is in our interpretation of the matter. It is impossible that the Bible would repeatedly inform us that “there is one God, the Father,” and then later tell us that there are three gods, or that there are three persons that comprise one god. That would be inconsistent, shifty, and unstable. These are the calling cards of Satan, not of God. This is why every trinitarian must ultimately admit that the trinity is not explicitly stated in the Bible. This is why every proof text that is given in support of Fundamental Belief #2 (the Trinity), in fact has nothing at all to say about a trinity of coequal, coeternal and consubstantial persons making up a single god.
You quote Ellen White as saying there are three persons in the Godhead… that’s not quite correct. Sister White wrote that there are three living persons in the heavenly trio. In that same letter, she says:
“The Father is all the fulness of the Godhead bodily and is invisible to mortal sight.” 21LtMs, Ms 21, 1906, par. 9
“The Son is all the fulness of the Godhead manifested. The Word of God declares Him to be “the express image of His person.” 21LtMs, Ms 21, 1906, par. 10
“The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fulness of the Godhead…” 21LtMs, Ms 21, 1906, par. 11
It is important to note that never does EGW tell us that “Godhead” is a club into which only three individuals have membership. Any concordance will define what Godhead is… it is divinity. Godhead is synonymous with divine attributes. It is not synonymous with trinity. With that understood, then let’s look at the above quote closely:
–She says that the Father IS all the fulness of the Godhead bodily
–She says that the Son IS all the fulness of the Godhead manifested
–She says that the Comforter is IN all the fulness of the Godhead.
If the Father IS all the fullness… and the Son IS all the fullness… but the Spirit is IN all the fullness, then she is simply restating what Scripture plainly reveals so plainly – Both the Father and the Son possess the same Spirit. It is an attribute of their divinity (Godhead). The Spirit is Holy because it belongs to a holy God, the Father. The Father has given his Holy Spirit to his only begotten Son. Let’s read it from the Bible to confirm:
Acts 2:32-33 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. (33) Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, AND HAVING RECEIVED OF THE FATHER THE PROMISE OF THE HOLY GHOST, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
–notice that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost was a result of the Father giving the Son the promise of his Spirit in such great measure that it sheds forth from Christ upon his disciples. Let’s look at another text:
Titus 3:5-6 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (6) WHICH HE SHED ON US ABUNDANTLY THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR SAVIOUR;
–If you read in context, you’ll find that it is the Father that gives to us his Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ.
I thank you that you have the spiritual sensitivity to fear for my salvation. That indicates that your heart is tender and receptive to seek after that which is truth. If that is the case and you want the truth, then please consider how it is possible that the Holy Spirit could be a third individual or person of a triune god, when we are informed that the Holy Spirit is Christ himself.
The Saviour is our Comforter. This I have proved Him to be. 7LtMs, Ms 20, 1892, par. 6
Christ is to be known by the blessed name of Comforter. “The Comforter,” said Christ to His disciples, “which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you, Peace I leave with you, My peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.” [John 14:26, 27.] 17LtMs, Ms 7, 1902, par. 10
“While Jesus ministers in the sanctuary above, He is still by His Spirit the minister of the church on earth.” DA 166.2
“They have one God and one Saviour; and one Spirit—the Spirit of Christ” 9T 189.3
How is it possible to reconcile these and countless other similar statements she makes if you tenaciously cling to a trinitarian god – a god that is nowhere explicitly described in Scripture? Yet, if we allow Scripture to mean what it says, and accept that the Father is the only true God (John 17:3), and that He gave to his Son the “oil of gladness” above his fellows (Hebrews 1:9), and that Christ received of the Father the promise of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit which He then sheds forth upon us (Acts 2:33 & Titus 3:6), then these statements from Sister White are perfectly reconcilable without mental gymnastics.
Christ is the comforter. This is plain language. How then can the Holy Spirit be the third person of the Godhead? It is actually quite simple. Each time that Sister White made such a statement (a total of five times in her lifetime), “third person” was always lower case. It wasn’t until many years after her death that “third person” was mysteriously capitalized to reflect the changing attitude of who the god of Seventh-day Adventism is. Christ frequently spoke of himself in the third person, referring to himself as the Son of Man, and even he and him. We are informed of the following:
“The Holy Spirit is Christ’s representative, but divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof.” DA 669.2
What does divested mean? It means to be rid of something… literally, it means to take off (di-) a garment (-vestment). Where are we told that a third being of a triune god, a separate individual from Jesus Christ was ever vested with the personality of humanity? Nowhere. Only Christ took on himself the form of a servant and became like us so that he might be in all points tempted like as we are. When Christ ascended to heaven, did he suddenly leave behind his human form? No. We are informed that his hands will forever bear the marks of his crucifixion. How then is Christ able to be present bodily in heaven, ministering in the Most Holy, while concurrently present as the minister of the church on earth? It is by his Holy Spirit which He received from the Father. The Holy Spirit is the third person of divinity (Godhead). It is the very mind of Christ, but without the encumbrance of humanity. It is the means by which Christ, now and forever in a human body, can be present everywhere. This is the truth about the identity and personality of the Holy Spirit. You may know it to be the truth because it does no harm to anything that has been provided to us through God’s inspired word. In contrast, if you refuse to take these clear statements because your mind has been trained to only believe that god is a trinity, then your only option is to cast these clear statements aside and come back with only a handful other quotes that can only support the error of a trinity through assumption, supposition, and non-contextual interpretation. I pray you will not choose this second option, because it is the same method that the leadership and people of Jerusalem used to ignore the warnings of the prophets.
Blessings.
Br. Eric,
Thank you for bringing to light the confusion that persists with those who don’t love the truth that the scriptures clearly state.
Man has mystified who God is and made it so only learned men could interpret who God is.
The Bible was made for the plain simple man. It’s words are to be of comfort to any and all who read. But when preachers and students at theological institutions are taught contrary to the Bible, they pass on error as fact.
We ALL must take the time to study for ourselves because our salvation and eternal life depends on it. We must be prepared to face the coming conflict head on with a “thus saith the lord”.
Our Bible is to be our only guide.
And if we find error in our ways, let us be meek and teachable. Let us LOVE the truth.
God bless this website for exposing apostasy and allowing an open forum to speak boldly of Gods literal Son, just like the apostles did in the synagogue after Pentecost. And just like they were shut out after a time, so will we. Then it will be time to spread the news to those who will listen.
The loud cry has been here but few will listen!
I have studied for myself, and am quite convinced that there are three persons in the Godhead. You spent a lot of time writing words that mean nothing to me! Christ says even a child can understand the scriptures. I believe if there were no Holy Spirit, than God, Jesus, and EGW would have clearing told us so. That did not happen.
When Christ left this earth, he knew that he could not be everywhere at all times. Thus, He sent THE Holy Spirit, not HIS Holy Spirit to earth. Anytime you see where the Holy Spirit is written, it is always THE Holy Spirit, not MY Holy Spirit. If it was Gods spirit, or Christs spirit, than why didn’t they just say so?
1John 5:7 it clearly states that there are three actual persons of the Godhead. Evidently, you did not do as I asked and watch the sermon by Passard Dean at the Wesley Chapel Church on April 1, 2023. You were too busy trying to convince me that I was wrong.
If EGW believed that the Holy Spirit was only the spirit of Christ, I believe she would have plainly and clearly stated so. She did not. She did plainly and clearly state that the Holy Spirit is the third PERSON of the Godhead. Contrary to what you believe, the Bible clearly states it also.
I do not feel that I am being deceived, I believe that it is you and many others that are being deceived. Satan is out to devour anyone he can. Once you grieve away THE Holy Spirit, there is no getting him back. Satan will use every tool he can to deceive. What better way than to convince people that their is no Holy Spirit! If you believe this lie, your prayers will not ascend to heaven and be heard.
Some people are saying that Elder Froom changed the wording in the book Evangelism, pages 613-617. That is just not true. I have written proof from the EQW Estates that the statements in Evangelism that EGW stated about the Godhead on pages 616 and 617 are exactly the way she wrote them originally. You see, I have done my own research and quite satisfied that there truly are THREE persons in the Godhead.
I have been a Seventh-day Adventist since September 10, 1977. I have read reams of articles regarding the apostasy in the SDA Church in the SOP and in the publications of self-supporting ministries aka independent ministries. There is no doubt that we are living in the very times of Ezekiel 8. However, I would gently challenge the subscribers of the Advent Messenger with the following points of interest:
•What is the biblical definition of apostasy?
•What is the SOP commentary on apostasy?
•When did even 1 true prophet in the OT:
*Leave Zion?
*Summon others to leave Zion?
•When did the apostles in the NT ever:
*Leave Zion?
*Summon others to leave Zion?
•When did EGW in modern times ever:
*Leave Zion?
*Summon others to leave Zion?
•When did the lovely Jesus ever leave:
*Leave Zion?
*Summon others to leave Zion?
•What does the term Laodicea really mean in its historical and present day context?
•What does the SOP mean when it states, “The sinners IN ZION will be sifted out” [MAR 203.2.3]?
•What does the statement mean, “The Lord has NOT given you a message…to call the people of God to come out of her [the SDA Church]” [LDE 51.2.1]?
•What does it mean, “The church of Christ, enfeebled and defective as it may be, is the only object on earth on which He bestows His Supreme regard” [TM 15.1.1]?
I have fellowshipped with my separated brethren [Israel and Judah] in Adventism and have observed that on both sides of the divide, the sins of the INDIVIDUAL leaders and members are inherent in BOTH camps [Jer. 17:9; Rev. 3:14-21]. Wheat and tares will co-exist [Matthew 13] till the lovely Jesus does the separating during the NSL crisis [1T 608; GC 608]. Fact. During the sifting time, in both camps, “many a star that we have admired for its brilliancy will then go out in darkness” [5T 81; PK 188].
While all of this mudslinging has been in operation since 1863, when the SDA Church was formed, the needle or dial reflecting the FINISHED WORK [Rom. 9:28] has not moved even 1 micron or angstrom. Fact. “The work is really retrograding instead of advancing as God designs it should” [6T 420.1.4]. Fact. ALL 10 of the virgins were asleep [Matthew 25]! Wake up Israel. Wake up Judah. Wake up SDA denomination. Wake up Independent Ministries. “The new birth is a RARE experience in this age of the world” [7A 299.7.1]. Few SDAs in either camp are converted. Fact.
Let us ALL go back to the Source of Healing for we are all deplorable [SC 64,65]. Fact. May the lovely Jesus give to Zion [Israel + Judah] the FR and the LR that He may at last “FINISH THE WORK, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth” [Rom. 9:28].
With kindest regards, I am
Michael Taylor, DC, CME, MABS
•The Peoples’ Dok-tor
•Lay Pastor/Teacher
Thank you for your comforting words!
We are to never leave the organized body of Christ. These people that are separating themselves from the body, I fear, will be outside the Holy City. I don’t understand their thinking. EGW never tells us to leave the SDA organized church. She also states that some of our brightest lights will go out. That is a very sad statement, but it is happening right now.
I just wish that those who want to leave the organized body would do so without trying to take as many with them as they can! I feel for those who have not studied their Bibles and the SOP. We have been given ample warning concerning these last days. I agree with Walter Veith. He says get you some glue, put it on your pew seat, and sit on it. That is what it is going to take to hang on in these last days!
I have been an Adventist since 1974. I, like you, have seen a lot of changes, not always for the better. However, we are never counseled to leave the Remnant Church that God founded. We are a movement that is to warn the world of what is coming. No other denomination preaches the Three Angels Messages, the Investigative Judgement, the true State of the Dead, etc. Very few denominations keep the Seventh Day Sabbath. We are unique in many ways.
God Bless………..
To Linda,
If We were Never meant’ to separate from the Denomination [ Jerusalem ] why did Ellen White Write the below in the 1884 Great Controversy? Has not the Church Separated from God, and God Given them a Bill of Divorce as Per Jeremiah 3 ?
“Jesus sends HIS PEOPLE a message of warning to prepare them for his coming. To the prophet John was made known the closing work in the great plan of man’s redemption. He beheld an angel flying ‘in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him for the hour of his Judgment is come and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters [Rev. 14:6, 7.].
The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message, symbolizes a class of faithful men, who, obedient to the promptings of God’s Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message was not to be committed to the religious leaders of the people. They had failed to preserve their connection with God, and had REFUSED THE LIGHT FROM HEAVEN therefore they WERE NOT of the number described by the apostle Paul: ‘But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day we are not of the night nor of darkness’ [1 Thess. 5:4, 5].
The watchmen upon the walls of Zion should be the first to catch the tidings of the Saviour’s advent, the first to lift their voices to proclaim him near, the first to warn the people to prepare for his coming. But they were at ease, dreaming of peace and safety, while the people were asleep in their sins. Jesus saw HIS CHURCH, like the barren fig-tree, covered with pretentious leaves, yet destitute of precious fruit. There was a boastful observance of the forms of religion, while the spirit of true humility, penitence and faith–which alone could render the service acceptable to God–was lacking. Instead of the graces of the Spirit, there were manifested pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness, oppression. A BACKSLIDING CHURCH closed their eyes to the signs of the times. God did nor forsake them, or suffer his faithfulness to fail but they departed from him, and SEPARATED THEMSELVES from his love. As they REFUSED TO COMPLY WITH THE CONDITIONS, his promises were NOT FULFILLED to them.” E.G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 4, pp. 199-200 [The 1884 edition of The Great Controversy, 199, 200].
1 They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another
man’s, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou
hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.*
7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not.
And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed
adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with
stones and with stocks.
10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.
11 And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.
Jeremiah 3
When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no
favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write
her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife.
3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her
hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be
his wife;
4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his
wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt
not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
Deuteronomy 24
Does not the Lord have cause to have Divorced the SDA Church? If he has Divorced her would not he Break his own Statute above by giving a Defiled Church the Latter Rain? Would not Satan Win the Great Controversy if he did So?
Something God would Never Do.
We were never meant to separate from Bible Truth, but we were to separate from Sin and Sinners Regardless of What they Call themselves.
Something to Think about.
You can leave if you want. As for me, I’m staying in the church!!!
In 2 Chronicles 20:20, the Bible declares that in order to prosper, we need to believe in God’s prophets. All of Ellen White’s counsels on worship have clearly been disregarded.