By Arnie Suntag
Instead of making efforts to ameliorate the pain and suffering experienced by millions of disillusioned Seventh-day Adventists who lost jobs, homes, marriages, and even the lives of loved ones because of poor judgment and collusion by the General Conference during the pandemic, church leaders and “household names” on the speaking circuit are jumping on the bandwagon to attack Dr. Conrad Vine like a school of piranhas. This has got to be the worst example of Christianity ever to be placed on the public stage for all the world to see. These individuals are creating more disunity in the church by defending their biased perspectives, than on virtually anything Dr. Vine could muster up. They would rather carry the General Conference’s preferred storyline like pallbearers at a funeral, rather than support the need for reconciliation of the long-standing infringement on freedom of conscience for the sake of their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ who were harmed by it.
What Sister White said in her inspired wisdom could not possibly be more relevant than in this current conflict:
“….The contest will be between the commandments of God and the commandments of men. Those who have yielded step by step to worldly demands and conformed to worldly customs will then yield to the powers that be, rather than subject themselves to derision, insult, threatened imprisonment, and death. At that time the gold will be separated from the dross. True godliness will be clearly distinguished from the appearance and tinsel of it. Many a star that we have admired for its brilliance will then go out in darkness. Those who have assumed the ornaments of the sanctuary, but are not clothed with Christ’s righteousness, will then appear in the shame of their own nakedness.” { PK 188.1}
Let’s begin with Pastor Stephen Bohr, who cancelled Dr. Vine’s appearance at his symposium because he did not agree with Vine’s perspective on stewardship and his ideas on how to rectify the consequences caused by the horribly misguided management of the Covid-19 mandates by the GC. Pastor Bohr apparently decided to participate in the deplatforming of Dr. Vine, perhaps in an effort to obtain favor from the General Conference, seeking to uphold its authority at all costs. After all, Bohr has to support his 435-acre tract in Tollhouse, California, which includes plans for a video production facility, lifestyle center, and chapel that seats more than 200 people. He cannot afford to ruffle too many feathers in the GC. He needs their support in one way or another, and dissing Dr. Vine as a means of supporting their effort to set an example for other heretics was a way of covering his assets. Evidently, Bohr had forgotten the “do unto others” admonishment in Scripture, despite his own dismissal by the Potomac Conference.
Then, of course, there’s Pastor Ivor Myers—a man who has been respected by many in our church, perhaps until just a few years ago when he began to overtly embrace Marxist ideology—a proclivity he has refused to acknowledge despite protestations from many who have supported him. He promoted the agenda of Black Lives Matter and the Covid mandates like any faithful left-wing pundit would. It hurt many of us. I used to employ Myer’s materials in one of our schools to help students divest themselves of the worldly influences that are now tearing America apart. But today, Myers is riding the crest of the wave in bringing these distinctively socialist ideologies into the living rooms of those he can indoctrinate into this deep-rooted belief system splitting the nation, and by the transitive property, our church. His scathing rebuke of Dr. Vine’s message should cause the hair to stand up on the necks of any faithful, well-studied Seventh-day Adventist. According to Myers, Dr. Vine is single handedly stirring up rebellion in the church. Really? Myers and the GC leaders are in fact the ones stirring up rebellion.
The GC leadership created the disunity in the first place by stonewalling any efforts to reconcile the vaccine mandate issue. Evidently, the fact that even the Supreme Court ruled the vaccine mandates to be unconstitutional was, and still is, being completely ignored. Actually, the GC has gone one step further in the wrong direction than the government by trampling on the convictions of faithful Seventh-day Adventists and then compounding the problem by failing to repent for their reckless authoritarian acts. Adding fuel to the already out-of-control fire, Myers, in a misguided effort to disparage Dr. Vine, inferred metaphorically that the Conference is the “government of God” and that by defying its authority, Vine represents Lucifer. No exaggeration. Myers implied that Vine is the devil himself, and that the Conference is the voice of God. This is absolutely outrageous. Sister White comments on this sort of political hatchet job:
“The opinion of men was looked to as the voice of God. The enemy took possession of minds and their judgment was worthless, their decisions were evil, for they did not have the mind of Christ. They were doing continual injustice to the persons they talked about, and they had a demoralizing effect upon the conference.” February 1890, Ms. 37-1890.
Myers went way too far in making such shameless comparisons, and I would imagine there are some in the church who feel that he should be defrocked for such an outlandish diatribe. There is simply no excuse for this reckless rhetoric. Dr. Vine, in his demeanor and his representations, has exhibited nothing but a humble, Christlike attitude in handling the pushback—a far cry from how his critics are behaving. It makes one wonder where all this venom is coming from.
Pastor Kevin Paulson, the moderator/administrator of ADvindicate, recently wrote an article entitled “Should Tithes and Offerings Serve as Weapons of Protest?”, which indirectly minimizes the efforts of those trying to infuse reason and truth back into the church. In that article, Paulson states that “those who employ such terms as ‘woke,’ ‘Marxist,’ ‘socialist,’ and ‘communist’ to political philosophies, policies, and persons with which they don’t happen to agree” is merely a politically divisive tactic, not necessarily a factual reality. His contention is that pigeonholing a conflicting viewpoint using these terms is not consistent with our mission as Seventh-day Adventists. He goes on to point out Sister White’s admonishment about political divisiveness in the church. While this is certainly important to recognize, the problem is that Paulson is uninformed about the historically documented movements on foot to subvert American ideology that have been brewing for more than a century.
The dynamics involved are complex, but the salient point is that they are at work in our church and especially in the controversy surrounding Dr. Vine. They impair reasoning and critical thinking, and this seriously compromises scriptural authority. Nonetheless, Paulson suggests that these are conspiracy theories that have no place in the church. This is a dangerous viewpoint, because these movements are not actually about politics, nor are they conspiracy theories. Anyone who has studied the history of these Jesuit-inspired initiatives understands that they are well crafted to surreptitiously unravel our theology—a process that is already proving to be effective. To turn a blind eye to this by labeling it ‘political’ is folly.
While a parachurch movement would probably have little impact on such insidious and malignant processes, calling out those who engage in them is the only defense we have against them. Paulson has minimized this point by labeling it political when in fact it is merely a way of preventing such movements from proliferating and doing more harm—the kind of harm we just witnessed with the pandemic mandates that Dr. Vine has so aptly condemned. Paulson, on the other hand, simply parroted the Conference narrative that the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy do not condemn the use of the Covid-19 vaccine or any others. This is simply not true. As I pointed out in my previous article, Sister White could not be more adamant about what she called “drug medicine”, stating that “if every particle of it were buried in the great ocean, I would say Amen.”
I do believe the admonishment inherent in this statement is rather clear. Furthermore, the mRNA technology that underlies the Covid vaccine employs amalgamation—a process that Sister White refers to as “a base crime that defaces the image of God.” The fact is, we do many detrimental things in our world today that are not specifically prohibited by the Bible or Spirit of Prophecy. That clearly does not make them right. Paulson is promoting a terrible defense for a provably dangerous practice.
However, this whole discussion is getting off-track because none of the foregoing involves the issue at hand. What brought about this controversial dispute in the first place is the denuding of religious liberty—a principle that just happens to be one of the pillars of our church’s foundation. This God-given right to act according to the dictates of one’s own conscience was quashed by GC leadership, and no effort has been made to rectify the consequences. The entire matter is about religious liberty, so Paulson has, inadvertently or otherwise, thrown his hat into the ring with the other religious liberty naysayers. He also sidetracked the issue by launching into a dissertation about the pros and cons of a parachurch movement, when the crux of Dr. Vine’s message is about the GC’s authoritarian foray into the lives of church members worldwide with the untenable vaccine and other so-called scientific mandates.
Finally, in an effort to prop up a now worn-out script and join the feeding frenzy to discredit Dr. Vine, Pastor Mark Finley took on the ‘dissenters’ in the church with what he evidently considers to be sound and reasonable theology. Of course, in his estimation, the true remnant is the organized Seventh-day Adventist Church. He aptly pointed out that there is only one remnant, and that another one will not come out of it. He is obviously referring to the Conference and all its subsidiary structures in the hierarchy as the remnant. I believe it has been framed that way as far back as I can remember. Certainly, most in the church have accepted this conceptualization. However, there is a long-standing paradox here, comparable to the question surrounding the true storehouse of Malachi 3:10. In other words, what is the true remnant?
According to Scripture, the remnant keeps the commandments of God and has the testimony of Jesus Christ (Rev 12:17). But what about those in leadership who have engaged in supporting critical theory, social justice, LGBT initiatives, and ecumenical agendas while calling those who have held uncompromisingly to Biblical truth “closet terrorists”? Are they also part of this remnant? Finley has an explanation, of course. Those who are not true to Biblical principles will be sifted out. So then, many in the GC leadership will be sifted out? No. Of course not. Dr. Vine and his ilk are the troublers of Israel. They will be sifted out. Really? Is that how it works? Am I making my point clear yet? I do not mean to be facetious, but Finley’s remarks bear all the hallmarks of the proverbial snake oil salesman. It is propaganda.
The church members who redirect tithe, challenge the leadership on their directives, or fail to support their apostasy are the tares among the wheat, and they will be sifted out. In other words, Finley and his colleagues have the right theology. They are above all of those in the lower echelons of the organized church who are neophytes and simply do not understand the true Gospel like they do. In his view, when Sister White said that “the church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall”, she was talking about the Conference. Can you imagine sitting comfortably in a nice, air-conditioned Conference church when persecution arises and our society is in the process of collapsing all around us? Ask yourself: Is this realistic? This kind of reasoning implies that the Conference, after it rids itself of the dissenters, will become the church triumphant. The truth is, those who overcome sin will be part of the church triumphant. Period. It’s about the people and the movement—not the buildings and the organization. The Spirit of Prophecy makes this very clear:
“We are the church militant, not the church triumphant. There must be deeper, much deeper spirituality in those who are handling sacred things. There is great danger in self-confidence, in trusting in human wisdom and in not leaning heavily and thoroughly upon God. Whoever tries to secure peace by withholding and not vindicating the truth—the present truth, appropriate for this time—will get a peace which will pass into the slumber of death.” {1888 930.2}
According to Finley’s perspective, however, the church triumphant appears to be comprised of anyone who is a card-carrying, Conference supporting, Seventh-day Adventist in good standing. Do we actually believe this? It is this kind of reasoning that will eventually sweep away the structure. Church members had better let go of the Conference’s apron strings and get prepared for a return to primitive Godliness. The Conference will not do that for them. The change is coming very soon. Sister White revealed what we have already seen happen as well as what is about to happen:
“Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure.” { 1SM 204.2}
Let’s be straight here. There is indeed a remnant. But it is surely not the remnant Finley is talking about. It is a very small group within the entire world church. Unfortunately, it is the majority that will be sifted out—out of the movement, that is—including the GC leaders who paid homage to worldly policy instead of to God during the pandemic. This is a stunning revelation, but if you look at commentary from Sister White and do the math, only a small segment of the 22 million Seventh-day Adventists will be in that remnant:
“It is a solemn statement that I make to the church, that not one in twenty whose names are registered upon the church books are prepared to close their earthly history, and would be as verily without God and without hope in the world as the common sinner. They are professedly serving God, but they are more earnestly serving mammon.” {ChS 41.1}
You can even construe the preceding to mean that there is not one faithful church member. She made another statement that helps to perhaps clarify this a bit:
“There is not one in one hundred who has a just sense of his position, his work, his accountability to God, and how much God will do for him if he will make Him his trust. The very first lesson that he should learn is dependence upon God. Make God your counselor at every step.” { PH167 23.2 }
Evidently, Mark Finley is above it all, as are his colleagues. He does not seem to feel that the Spirit of Prophecy or the counsels found in Matthew 18, that many earnestly followed in bringing their petitions to GC leadership, apply to him or his colleagues, nor does he seem to feel it necessary to repent as Scripture admonishes us to do. Apparently, he believes they did not do anything wrong.
I am particularly disappointed in Mark Finley, because it was one of his messages on the second chapter of Daniel decades ago that played a role in bringing me into the church. It truly saddens me, because he and his cohorts are now playing a dangerous game with papal undercurrents. If he and others in the GC do not repent and do what is right in the matter that created the current controversy, they will truly be jeopardizing their eternal salvation. They had a chance at the last General Conference Session to repent and wipe the slate clean, but they refused to do it. Sister White ironically addressed this exact issue in reference to a similar situation in her day:
“The Lord calls for the close self-examination to be made now that was not made at the last General Conference, when He was waiting to be gracious. The present is our sowing time for eternity. We must reap the fruit of the evil seed we sow, unless we repent the sowing, and ask forgiveness for the mistakes we have made. Those who, given opportunity to repent and reform, pass over the ground without humbling the heart before God, without putting away that which He reproves, will become hardened against the counsel of the Lord Jesus.” { KC 95.3 }
The rather sickening efforts we are witnessing from key individuals in leadership roles who hope to counter the ongoing crisis in the church with forceful dialogue and coercion, are so out of kilter with reality, that words can scarcely encapsulate it. Sorry, Kevin Paulson—they really are woke. The reasoning involved is upside-down, which is one of the hallmarks of woke ideology. Anyone can witness this process play out in everyday life when someone employs circumlocution to avoid answering a simple yes or no question. It happens all the time in Congressional hearings and court proceedings.
The reason our leadership’s efforts at pushback are so appalling is that not one of them has stepped forward to this day to apologize for what happened during the pandemic or to make it right with those they have harmed, as any sincere Christian would do. This is all the church membership around the world has desired and pleaded for—a statement apologizing for the grievous errors in judgment made and a commitment to never make them again. An earnest response would be a great start: “We’re really sorry. We didn’t know at the time. We made a terrible mistake. Please forgive us.” This should also be followed with some form of restitution, as this is certainly the Biblical thing to do when one has caused damage to another. However, what has happened to date is quite the contrary. The leadership continues to stonewall the matter and shut down any attempt by church membership to reveal the truth about the fiasco. What happened to Dr. Vine is a good example indeed.
It seems that the paradigm being followed is to do everything possible to sweep glaring mistakes under the rug, just like most in our government do today. It is the assertion of those in leadership that we should just keep our mouths shut and move on. After all, this is exactly what Ted Wilson illustrated at the last General Conference Session. Despite the most articulate, earnest, and downright desperate appeals to engage in open Christian dialogue about the vaccine issue, he exercised his kingly power to silence the dissidents. And now that the precedent has been set, he and others who have tasted the unchallengeable power of authoritarianism will do it again without reservation, should the occasion arise. This must be stopped before it is too late.
The most startling aspect of the fracas that has been going on between the two factions within the church since the issue surrounding Dr. Vine surfaced is the nearly complete obliteration of its most important element. Somehow, through the din of social media posts, YouTube presentations, and emotionally charged messages from the pulpit, almost everyone seems to have forgotten what makes this unrelenting appeal for reconciliation different from anything that has plagued the church in the past. It’s really quite simple. People died. Because of grossly misguided decisions by those at the helm, people lost their jobs, their marriages, their homes, and their lives. And yet, there has not been one single word of remorse or any attempt at reconciliation by church leadership. Worse yet, the process of stonewalling the issue has not abated. Does anyone wonder why? Is it because these people actually believe the drivel spawned by so-called science even after congressional hearings and a plethora of exposés in the media have finally surfaced? Not on your life. It is because they cut backroom deals. Pockets were lined and ministry budgets bolstered. It is no secret that large sums of money were accepted from government handouts, and because the Seventh-day Adventist Church has a distinctively global presence, you can bet that, as a result, failure to follow the official narrative would carry serious consequences. In other words, it all boils down to money, and the love of it.
This whole saga has now morphed into a battle over ‘ownership’ of the tithe. Nothing new there. However, what is new is that the subject of tithe redirection is being used to cover up a monumental debacle by diverting everyone’s attention to a subject that is always contentious. Unfortunately, nearly everyone bought into this. The subject of redirecting the tithe has become the rallying cry for condemning Conrad Vine, distracting everyone from the main issue—the failure of church leadership to set the record straight on the Covid mandates.
With renewed efforts nearly every day by those in leadership roles to condemn Dr. Vine for taking a stand on behalf of those harmed by unprecedented collusion, this controversy will simply not go away. People will leave the church—the organized church, that is—and others will avoid it because they will consider it a cult. This is only because the level of hypocrisy has now exceeded the height of Mount Everest. Those who are attacking Conrad Vine’s message despite its most essential point, namely, the gross mishandling of the vaccine mandates, are only furthering the disunity in the church and disabling its God-given role on earth. Sister White says it far better than I possibly can:
“I felt anxious that the light of heaven might shine upon the people of God in this Conference, that they might zealously repent of their sins, and realize in themselves the fulfillment of the truth uttered by Christ: “The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” The affections of the heart must be changed by the life and power of the word of God, and those who profess the name of Christ must live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” { RH September 3, 1889, par. 8}
Make your voices heard. It is time that we all start calling sin by its right name. There is but little time left in this world. It is definitely not wise to sit idly by and merely watch this situation deteriorate. Get involved. Keep in mind the words of Sister White: “indifference and neutrality in a religious crisis is regarded of God as a grievous crime and equal to the very worst type of hostility against God.”
About the author: Arnie Suntag is the founder and president of Walk of Faith Media, an organization that offers wellness information and contemporary news through television, print, and social media. Walk of Faith Media also conducts seminars and educational series on health and disease prevention and provides outreach to the community. For inquiries or comments call (866) 359-2640 or email Arnie Suntag at arniesuntag@walkoffaithmedia.org.
Lewin_M says
God is showing us a glimpse of outside of His Spirit fully controlling our lives, another spirit will take over. We should now understand that God is indeed holding back the winds of strife for when He lets go there are some very decent looking christians around that are going to become as violent animals. Without the fear of God in our hearts and a love for His truth guided by His Spirit, we aren’t any different than the seed of the serpent. Save us from ourselves Oh Lord God and baptize us anew.
George Tasker says
I have a scenario I would like to present to Ivor Myers and then a question.
Ivor, The scenario is this.
You are now in heaven, glory to God. You step out of your mansion on the first day on the new earth. You notice your neighbour is a white man. You go introduce yourself to him and start talking. As the conversation progresses you find out that he was a slave owner in the deep south in the first half of the 19th century. He took one of the slave girls and had children with her. You then find out that your ancestral line traces back to those two.
Would you find heaven an enjoyable place upon finding all these things out considering he is going to be your neighbour for eternity?
Teresa says
Thanks for this succinct article and and for this platform to present it. I praise the Lord for His messengers. Of course we know the true remnant (the wheat ) will be seen when the purification of the Lord’s church takes place. I can’t wait til He takes the reins in His own hands and His Holy Spirit is King. We must not be shaken. Rest in Jesus, wherever you are. He will thoroughly purge His floor. Continue to lift up your voice like a trumpet and uplift the testimony of Jesus wherever you may be. Continue to die to self to be ready when the harvest time comes. We’ll stand for truth and let the Holy Spirit speak through us. Rejoice in the victory. All who live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.
Erich Schultze says
An excellent assessment and description of the great crisis we find ourselves in as Adventists. God bless the author!
Eric Doering says
From Early Writings, the section titled, “The Advent Movement Illustrated”. Sister White saw these current events in symbolic form and recorded them for our admonition. We are witnessing the fulfillment of prophecy.
I saw a number of companies that seemed to be bound together by cords. Many in these companies were in total darkness; their eyes were directed downward to the earth, and there seemed to be no connection between them and Jesus. But scattered through these different companies were persons whose countenances looked light, and whose eyes were raised to heaven. Beams of light from Jesus, like rays from the sun, were imparted to them. An angel bade me look carefully, and I saw an angel watching over every one of those who had a ray of light, while evil angels surrounded those who were in darkness. I heard the voice of an angel cry, “Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come.” EW 240.1 [Notice, the first angel’s message identifying the God we are to worship is presented to the Advent movement. The very first of God’s ten commandments reveals to us why the first angel’s message is directed to us as an Advent Movement. The SDA denomination has enshrined a god in the second fundamental belief that is foreign to Scripture. That god is nowhere plainly declared or described in Scripture, thus it is always said to be a mystery. The God, even the heavenly Father and Him alone, that we must worship to be a part of the true remnant is no mystery, for He sends his messengers to declare, “Fear God and give glory to Him… and worship Him that made heaven and earth and the sea and the fountains of water.”]
A glorious light then rested down upon these companies, to enlighten all who would receive it. Some of those who were in darkness received the light and rejoiced. Others resisted the light from heaven, saying that it was sent to lead them astray. The light passed away from them, and they were left in darkness. Those who had received the light from Jesus joyfully cherished the increase of precious light which was shed upon them. Their faces beamed with holy joy, while their gaze was directed upward to Jesus with intense interest, and their voices were heard in harmony with the voice of the angel, “Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come.” As they raised this cry, I saw those who were in darkness thrusting them with side and with shoulder. Then many who cherished the sacred light, broke the cords which confined them and stood out separated from those companies. As they were doing this, men belonging to the different companies and revered by them passed through, some with pleasing words, and others with wrathful looks and threatening gestures, and fastened the cords which were weakening. These men were constantly saying, “God is with us. We stand in the light. We have the truth.” I inquired who these men were, and was told that they were ministers and leading men who had rejected the light themselves, and were unwilling that others should receive it. EW 240.2 [Notice that there isn’t a correction of course for the “ship” – the Advent movement, the true hearted “separated from those companies.”]
I saw those who cherished the light looking upward with ardent desire, expecting Jesus to come and take them to Himself. Soon a cloud passed over them, and their faces were sorrowful. I inquired the cause of this cloud and was shown that it was their disappointment. The time when they expected their Saviour had passed, and Jesus had not come. As discouragement settled upon the waiting ones, the ministers and leading men whom I had before noticed, rejoiced, and all those who had rejected the light triumphed greatly, while Satan and his evil angels also exulted. EW 241.1
Then I heard the voice of another angel saying, “Babylon is fallen, is fallen!” A light shone upon those desponding ones, and with ardent desires for His appearing, they again fixed their eyes upon Jesus. I saw a number of angels conversing with the one who had cried, “Babylon is fallen,” and these united with him in the cry, “Behold, the Bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him.” The musical voices of these angels seemed to reach everywhere. An exceedingly bright and glorious light shone around those who had cherished the light which had been imparted to them. Their faces shone with excellent glory, and they united with the angels in the cry, “Behold, the Bridegroom cometh.” As they harmoniously raised the cry among the different companies, those who rejected the light pushed them and with angry looks scorned and derided them. But angels of God wafted their wings over the persecuted ones, while Satan and his angels were seeking to press their darkness around them, to lead them to reject the light from heaven. EW 241.2 [Notice that the second angel’s message is also directed to the Advent movement. They are informed by those who had previously separated that “Babylon is fallen.” This is no small matter and each must carefully consider why the Advent movement must be told “Babylon is fallen.” The reaction from those that had rejected the first angel’s message and now the second angel’s message is decidedly negative, aggressive, and even diabolical. While it hurts to see “many a star that we have admired for its brilliance… go out in darkness,” we should expect it.]
Then I heard a voice saying to those who had been pushed and derided, “Come out from among them, and touch not the unclean.” In obedience to this voice, a large number broke the cords which bound them, and leaving the companies that were in darkness, joined those who had previously gained their freedom, and joyfully united their voices with them. I heard the voice of earnest, agonizing prayer from a few who still remained with the companies that were in darkness. The ministers and leading men were passing around in these different companies, fastening the cords more firmly; but still I heard this voice of earnest prayer. Then I saw those who had been praying reach out their hands for help toward the united company who were free, rejoicing in God. The answer from them, as they earnestly looked to heaven, and pointed upward, was, “Come out from among them, and be separate.” I saw individuals struggling for freedom, and at last they broke the cords that bound them. They resisted the efforts which were made to fasten the cords tighter and refused to heed the repeated assertions: “God is with us.” “We have the truth with us.” EW 242.1
Elder Finley and other leading voices are actively fastening the cords. What will you do? Will you succumb to their fear-tactic of being left out from “the remnant church?” If so, you may be sure that prophecy declares you have sided with a Babylonish system, and unless you separate, you will, discover perdition.
Individuals like Dr. Vine are noticing that just as prophesied by Isaiah, “From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it [the Advent movement]; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores…” This realization is a process. One doesn’t simply wake up one morning and declare, “Our house has been left unto us desolate!” His words are indicating that he is no longer permitting himself to be bound by the cords, which in his case involves even his means of income. The question that he has yet to answer is, Why has this happened to the Advent movement? As he, or rather, we search into this, we find that in the same way that every time Israel and/or Judah permitted themselves to fall into open and unabashed idolatry and then subsequently acted out their apostacy through the weakening and deemphasizing (rationalization) of God’s plainly stated law, the slaying of God’s messengers, and the marginalization of his true commandment keeping people, so we, the Advent movement, have done once again. What is to be the outcome? Reformation and a glorious new denominational kingdom upon the earth? Decidedly not. It will be but a small remnant that will buy the eye salve so that they may see and escape the destruction. The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
I don’t know with certainty where we stand in the prophecy from “The Advent Movement Illustrated,” but it is unquestionably time to declare, “Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.” It is painful to see that Sister White’s warning (4 LTMS, LT 41, 1886, Par. 7) that the Advent movement was in danger of becoming a sister to fallen Babylon is now demonstrated as being fulfilled by the actions of the denomination and its leaders . Events now taking place are establishing the fact that Babylon, with her sisters, is standing on the brink of the abyss and is about to fall. Time is too short to do a balancing act on that razor edge.
1 Kings 18:21 How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
Michel Herman says
What we are now witnessing has to happen as it was prophesied by Sister White, the messenger of the Lord.
The mighty shaking has commenced and will go on, and all will be shaken out who are not willing to take a bold and unyielding stand for the truth, and to sacrifice for God and His cause. CET 107.3
In the last solemn work few great men will be engaged. They are self-sufficient, independent of God, and He cannot use them. The Lord has faithful servants, who in the shaking, testing time will be disclosed to view.. ChS 49.2
Divisions will come in the church. Two parties will be developed. The wheat and tares grow up together for the harvest.—Selected Messages 2:114 (1896). . LDE 172.3
The shaking of God blows away multitudes like dry leaves.—Testimonies for the Church 4:89 (1876). . LDE 180.1
Let opposition arise, let bigotry and intolerance again bear sway, let persecution be kindled, and the half-hearted and hypocritical will waver and yield the faith; but the true Christian will stand firm as a rock, his faith stronger, his hope brighter than in days of prosperity.—The Great Controversy, 602 (1911). . LDE 181.3
Roger Aak says
This is not the beginning of the shaking. The really big shaking from the truth came in 1980. Everybody understand what I am inferring to. I believe that was what SOP called Omega of apostasy, very similar to the Alfa of apostasy by Kellog. Now we have seen what apostasy leads to, more apostasy from the same usual suspects. SOP also saw the arise of a new organisation, new books and new philosophy. All of this has come true. I am not surprised. The falling away had to happen. Then we understand where we are in the stream of time. What really make me worried is how many that may have been brainwashed by the GC apostasies.
Ruthie says
Yes, Roger, I know EXACTLY what you’re referring to; and it’s also causing a great division, some people are calling it “hellish”. We are at the end of the Shaking, it is intensifying & will end soon. Kellogg had his view of God; SDAs today do not know who God is & most believe it is a minor issue (but of course Sabbath-keeping will save them). This is indeed the new organization that Ellen White warned about; but the leaders themselves don’t realize they are part of it. It’s a “Rich Man & Lazarus” scenario: the leaders are up on their exalted platform looking down on us peons, dropping us a few of their crumbs. We all know what happened in that parable.
Mg says
God bless you bro Arnie Suntag, Andy Roman for the work you are doing(Present Truth, 3rd Angels Message) and standing for Truth and Righteousness.
David says
I think Mark Finley was saying that if we stand up for the truth, God will make sure His way wins and there wont need to be a para-church. Not because the GC is infallible, but because the light will chase away the dark out of the GC. I didn’t think he was making excuses for the GC at all. After listening to him, my impression was he’s on Dr Vine’s side. Finley didn’t say that explicitly, as I would have liked, but he talked in terms of a general lesson about staying true.
Mg says
God gives evidence to all who seek Him(Hebrews 11:6), so that we won’t be have any excuse. At one point I was hearing things about certain people, things they have said and done. I decide to ask God to give more evidence so that I can know for sure. God have not disappointed me yet, and I have learned that to never trust anyone who are ambiguous in their messages, especially when it is given in a conflict like this one. You can see the contrast between Vine’s message and other messages. In Vine’s message, he clearly defines important words, phrases and points so that the hearer won’t be confused with his overall message. Any time the speaker lacks defining words or phrases, he intentionally or not, is leaving the hearer to fill in the definitions for himself which is dangerous. This is a tactic used in mixing truth with error in order to deceive. It is dangerous because now, you will come to conclusions based on plausible evidence. It seems that he is on Vine’s side, however Vine defines what the ‘church’ is. I agree with Vine because he uses the same definition as the Scriptures and SOP. We are living in a time where we can’t trust anyone. Those who we thought were brilliant stars are showing they are base metal. This is why we have to allow God to do the shaking. God is revealing to us who is who, and it will increase. This is the same man who have echoed others in saying ‘stay in the ship’. I presume that using the word ship, they are referring to Noah’s Ark, which is a type and we are living in the antitype. The problem here is, is that the conference and structure is not the ship. why? Because prophecy has told us so. Jesus, the true and faithful witness has told us in SOP that the structure will fall. ‘Fall’ here means apostasy. I believe it because the structure has fallen through out history in God’s church – history repeats itself, type/antitype. I believe that the plandemic – God allowed it to test us and prepare us. If we have leaders who have taken the side of the world on this issue, contradicting the plain counsels of the SOP(health message) and they refuse to repent, I can’t trust them going forward! This is the same spirit the leaders had in 70AD when Jerusalem was destroyed – “stay in the ship”. We’ll those who followed Jesus remembered the prophecy in Matt 24, and got out of the ship and they were spared.
“God will arouse His people; if other means fail, heresies will come in among them, which will sift them, separating the chaff from the wheat. The Lord calls upon all who believe His word to awake out of sleep. Precious light has come, appropriate for this time. It is Bible truth, showing the perils that are right upon us. This light should lead us to a diligent study of the Scriptures, and a most critical examination of the positions which we hold.” GW 299.1
“Satan has ability to suggest doubts and to devise objections to the pointed testimony that God sends, and many think it a virtue, a mark of intelligence in them, to be unbelieving and to question and quibble. Those who desire to doubt will have plenty of room. God does not propose to remove all occasion for unbelief. He gives evidence, which must be carefully investigated with a humble mind and a teachable spirit, and all should decide from the weight of evidence.” 5T 675.3
“God never asks us to believe, without giving sufficient evidence upon which to base our faith. His existence, His character, the truthfulness of His word, are all established by testimony that appeals to our reason; and this testimony is abundant. Yet God has never removed the possibility of doubt. Our faith must rest upon evidence, not demonstration. Those who wish to doubt will have opportunity; while those who really desire to know the truth will find plenty of evidence on which to rest their faith.” SC 105.2
Clint Hughes says
“An earnest response would be a great start: “We’re really sorry. We didn’t know at the time. We made a terrible mistake. Please forgive us.” This should also be followed with some form of restitution, as this is certainly the Biblical thing to do when one has caused damage to another“
Contradiction on it head while the author is lambasting Adventist who support social justice causes for restitution of past wrongs over seen and allowed by Governments but here wish the Church to offer restitution by first assuming responsibility for consequences of freely exercising there own conscience.
Bully the decision making body of the church into treating vaccines the way JW treat blood transfusion.