You can leave if you want. As for me, I’m staying in the church!!!

To Linda,

If We were Never meant’ to separate from the Denomination [ Jerusalem ] why did Ellen White Write the below in the 1884 Great Controversy? Has not the Church Separated from God, and God Given them a Bill of Divorce as Per Jeremiah 3 ?

“Jesus sends HIS PEOPLE a message of warning to prepare them for his coming. To the prophet John was made known the closing work in the great plan of man’s redemption. He beheld an angel flying ‘in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him for the hour of his Judgment is come and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters [Rev. 14:6, 7.].

The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message, symbolizes a class of faithful men, who, obedient to the promptings of God’s Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message was not to be committed to the religious leaders of the people. They had failed to preserve their connection with God, and had REFUSED THE LIGHT FROM HEAVEN therefore they WERE NOT of the number described by the apostle Paul: ‘But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day we are not of the night nor of darkness’ [1 Thess. 5:4, 5].

The watchmen upon the walls of Zion should be the first to catch the tidings of the Saviour’s advent, the first to lift their voices to proclaim him near, the first to warn the people to prepare for his coming. But they were at ease, dreaming of peace and safety, while the people were asleep in their sins. Jesus saw HIS CHURCH, like the barren fig-tree, covered with pretentious leaves, yet destitute of precious fruit. There was a boastful observance of the forms of religion, while the spirit of true humility, penitence and faith–which alone could render the service acceptable to God–was lacking. Instead of the graces of the Spirit, there were manifested pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness, oppression. A BACKSLIDING CHURCH closed their eyes to the signs of the times. God did nor forsake them, or suffer his faithfulness to fail but they departed from him, and SEPARATED THEMSELVES from his love. As they REFUSED TO COMPLY WITH THE CONDITIONS, his promises were NOT FULFILLED to them.” E.G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 4, pp. 199-200 [The 1884 edition of The Great Controversy, 199, 200].

1 They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another
man’s, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou
hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.*

7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not.
And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed
adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with
stones and with stocks.
10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.
11 And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.

Jeremiah 3

When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no
favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write
her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife.
3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her
hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be
his wife;
4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his
wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt
not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Deuteronomy 24

Does not the Lord have cause to have Divorced the SDA Church? If he has Divorced her would not he Break his own Statute above by giving a Defiled Church the Latter Rain? Would not Satan Win the Great Controversy if he did So?

Something God would Never Do.

We were never meant to separate from Bible Truth, but we were to separate from Sin and Sinners Regardless of What they Call themselves.

Something to Think about.

Brother Marcus – this is a reply to your comment below from July 8 at 5:13 PM

Many are called, but few are chosen… Mat 22:14

It is refreshing and reaffirming to hear from someone that is being led in the same direction in their studies of scripture.

I agree with your conclusion that the message must first be presented to the fallen SDA denomination before it can go out to the world. This has been God’s way ever since the beginning. This is how it was in apostolic times. First, he tries over and over and over to call his wayward people back. When they will not listen, then the message goes out to others who will listen.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

The cycle will repeat itself now in the last days and I’ve seen it described in the book Early Writings, in the chapters “The Advent Movement Illustrated,” and “Another Illustration.” There Sister White tells us that the first angel’s message (which is a call to the worship the true God) goes to the Advent people; then the second angel’s message also goes to the Advent people – each can do their own math on why the SDA denomination would need to the hear the second angel’s message (hint: it has a lot to do with what is reported on in this website). Sadly, Sister White says that those that reject the first angel’s message consisting of a call to worship the true God cannot see or comprehend the second angel’s message. This is in large part due to the leadership going around binding the people with cords and fastening them tight, while declaring repeatedly, “We have the truth,” and “God is with us.” We can see this taking place even now, and alas, most do not even recognize that they are bound by cords.

I believe that we are presently living in the time of the second angel simply because I see both messages being given and am striving to join my voice with that of the angel’s. EGW then describes the third angel’s message as going to the world, not to the advent people. Could it be that it goes to the world because the time of the SDA denomination will have by then passed (a.k.a the close of probation for the SDA denomination – a.k.a. “your house is left unto you desolate”), while the true church of God, those that keep his commandments, will have separated from the corrupt denominational corporation just as Sister White describes in those chapters and throughout the book Early Writings?

The interesting thing about all of this is, if the understanding of the sequence of events is correct, that this is all taking place PRIOR to a national Sunday law! Consider how significant this is in light of how every “present truth” SDA group talks about the NSL nearly every Sabbath service and how that will be our (SDA’s) great final test. I believe that is only partially correct. It is true, all true SDA’s will confront the Sunday law, but our Sabbath test is taking place right now. We are being evaluated to see whether we truly honor the Sabbath. Do we guard its edges? Do we refrain from indulging in worldly activities and even from speaking about unconsecrated subjects? I personally think that Sabbath keeping extends beyond the seventh day and includes annual Sabbaths. Some might think that our Sabbath test is too easy to truly be a test, but perhaps our test is even more difficult in that it is a test of our unstressed, everyday/common devotion to God, and not a fall on your knees with gut wrenching tears sort of test. Do we choose to honor God with all our being when life is at its easiest and best? I think this seems like something that God would want to show to the angels and the unfallen inhabitants of other worlds.

If at the time of the installation of a national and international Sunday law, probation will have by then already closed for the SDA denomination, then how can the Sunday law be our great test? My opinion is that we have misunderstood much of what EGW has to say on the subject in that she referred to the Sunday law as the great test for God’s people, and we immediately jump to the conclusion (perhaps arrogantly) that we SDA’s alone are God’s people. But Christ said that he has other sheep which are not of this fold. Ultimately, God’s people includes those Catholics, Agnostics, Atheists, even Luciferians, that at the eleventh hour make their choice to stand with God’s other people (including true SDA’s). These 11th hour workers receive the same wages as those who worked through the heat of the day.

We as SDA’s have extensive knowledge about the events which will take place surrounding the NSL. That knowledge should be used now to build up our faith in preparation for the fearful events to come. The test that Sister White describes at the time of the Sunday law is for the people who previously had no knowledge about these truths, and in the very moment when the greatest tribulation that has ever been seen on earth is beating down the door of God’s people’s house, those who didn’t previously know the truth will have to make their decision whether to join the *SMALL* group of maligned and persecuted Sabbath keepers. Now we can see a great and fearful test.

In my opinion, the truths that we who are alive at the end of time will necessarily have to embrace in order to become naturalized citizens to the Kingdom of Heaven will include, though not necessarily be limited to:

-Who is the true God of the Bible (first angel’s message),
-Who is his literal only begotten Son that gave his life as a ransom for us (still part of/connected to the first angel’s message),
-What commandments has God given regarding his Sabbaths (worship – which is still part of the 1st angels message),
-Separate from false systems of worship – Babylon (obviously the second angel’s message, but remember that it goes first the SDA denomination)
-Not to accept the mark of the beast (only goes to the world at large)

As I share these thoughts with other SDA’s and literally beg them to study this from scripture and EGW, I frequently get a similar reaction. They believe me to be deceived and a deceiver or else a loony with too many words. What they frequently fail to understand is that those of us that are studying these things and seeing the urgent need for repentance and reform, first and foremost for the worship of the wrong god, started from the very position that they occupy – card carrying Seventh-day Adventist denomination members, even church elders, treasurers, sabbath school teachers, pathfinder directors, etc. (been there, done all of that). It was only through many tears and the agony of realizing how far we have strayed away from true worship that we have come to be able to reach out to others that they might also see the true condition of the modern denomination. Sadly, most do not want to see. They don’t want their comfortable boat ride to be rocked… all they can say is “stay in the boat,” but they don’t realize which boat that is supposed to be.

Again, “Many are called, but few are chosen… ” Mat 22:14

Our job is to continue the call of Jeremiah until such time as God utters the fearful words:
Jeremiah 7:16  Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee. (See also Jeremiah 11:14 & 14:11-12)

Thank you for your comforting words!

We are to never leave the organized body of Christ. These people that are separating themselves from the body, I fear, will be outside the Holy City. I don’t understand their thinking. EGW never tells us to leave the SDA organized church. She also states that some of our brightest lights will go out. That is a very sad statement, but it is happening right now.

I just wish that those who want to leave the organized body would do so without trying to take as many with them as they can! I feel for those who have not studied their Bibles and the SOP. We have been given ample warning concerning these last days. I agree with Walter Veith. He says get you some glue, put it on your pew seat, and sit on it. That is what it is going to take to hang on in these last days!

I have been an Adventist since 1974. I, like you, have seen a lot of changes, not always for the better. However, we are never counseled to leave the Remnant Church that God founded. We are a movement that is to warn the world of what is coming. No other denomination preaches the Three Angels Messages, the Investigative Judgement, the true State of the Dead, etc. Very few denominations keep the Seventh Day Sabbath. We are unique in many ways.

God Bless………..

I have studied for myself, and am quite convinced that there are three persons in the Godhead. You spent a lot of time writing words that mean nothing to me! Christ says even a child can understand the scriptures. I believe if there were no Holy Spirit, than God, Jesus, and EGW would have clearing told us so. That did not happen.

When Christ left this earth, he knew that he could not be everywhere at all times. Thus, He sent THE Holy Spirit, not HIS Holy Spirit to earth. Anytime you see where the Holy Spirit is written, it is always THE Holy Spirit, not MY Holy Spirit. If it was Gods spirit, or Christs spirit, than why didn’t they just say so?

1John 5:7 it clearly states that there are three actual persons of the Godhead. Evidently, you did not do as I asked and watch the sermon by Passard Dean at the Wesley Chapel Church on April 1, 2023. You were too busy trying to convince me that I was wrong.

If EGW believed that the Holy Spirit was only the spirit of Christ, I believe she would have plainly and clearly stated so. She did not. She did plainly and clearly state that the Holy Spirit is the third PERSON of the Godhead. Contrary to what you believe, the Bible clearly states it also.

I do not feel that I am being deceived, I believe that it is you and many others that are being deceived. Satan is out to devour anyone he can. Once you grieve away THE Holy Spirit, there is no getting him back. Satan will use every tool he can to deceive. What better way than to convince people that their is no Holy Spirit! If you believe this lie, your prayers will not ascend to heaven and be heard.

Some people are saying that Elder Froom changed the wording in the book Evangelism, pages 613-617. That is just not true. I have written proof from the EQW Estates that the statements in Evangelism that EGW stated about the Godhead on pages 616 and 617 are exactly the way she wrote them originally. You see, I have done my own research and quite satisfied that there truly are THREE persons in the Godhead.

Br. Eric,

Thank you for bringing to light the confusion that persists with those who don’t love the truth that the scriptures clearly state.

Man has mystified who God is and made it so only learned men could interpret who God is.

The Bible was made for the plain simple man. It’s words are to be of comfort to any and all who read. But when preachers and students at theological institutions are taught contrary to the Bible, they pass on error as fact.

We ALL must take the time to study for ourselves because our salvation and eternal life depends on it. We must be prepared to face the coming conflict head on with a “thus saith the lord”.

Our Bible is to be our only guide.

And if we find error in our ways, let us be meek and teachable. Let us LOVE the truth.

God bless this website for exposing apostasy and allowing an open forum to speak boldly of Gods literal Son, just like the apostles did in the synagogue after Pentecost. And just like they were shut out after a time, so will we. Then it will be time to spread the news to those who will listen.

The loud cry has been here but few will listen!

Please study this matter for yourself sister Linda. Don’t go to pastor such and such for answers, for those pastors are only men and are therefore capable of leading people down an incorrect path. Go to Scripture to find out what the issue is. This is what I tried to do in my previous post. God has laid it out plainly so that all may understand, but just like in ancient times, it is possible to convince ourselves that apostacy isn’t happening in the SDA church. That’s what the majority of Judah’s citizens did and they suffered the judgment of God just as if they were themselves the ones enticing the nation into the practice of idolatry and wickedness. Are you honestly able to believe that the SDA denomination has not fallen into apostacy and idolatry? Isn’t it painfully obvious? In the face of the ever mounting evidence that the denomination has sealed her doom by her wickedness, how can you rationalize away the prophecy of Jeremiah as if it were of none effect? You say we must never leave the organized SDA church, but where do you get that from? This is the same thing that the Jewish leaders said to the citizens of Jerusalem both times just prior to it’s destruction. You quote Sister White to support your position, but the quote is misused in that you have assumed that “church” means the SDA denomination. What about the following quote?:

God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. “Where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them.” [Matthew 18:20.] Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ’s church, for the presence of the high and holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church. 4LtMs, Lt 108, 1886, par. 17

Scripture is crystal clear that there is a Holy Spirit. It’s called holy because it is the Spirit of God (a term also used in scripture). There is no controversy over the existence of God’s Spirit. The question is whether scripture explicitly informs us in clear terms that the Holy Spirit is a separate individual, which together with the Father and the Son comprise a threefold, triune god called the trinity. Obviously, this isn’t in Scripture. Then what is plainly stated in scripture? Texts were previously provided informing us that there is one God, a singular individual, who is the Father in heaven. This cannot and must not be ignored regardless of what an army of pastors may say.

If the plain statement of scripture contradicts what we think is doctrine, then rest assured, that the contradiction is not in the Bible, nor is it in the writings of Sister White, but rather it is in our interpretation of the matter. It is impossible that the Bible would repeatedly inform us that “there is one God, the Father,” and then later tell us that there are three gods, or that there are three persons that comprise one god. That would be inconsistent, shifty, and unstable. These are the calling cards of Satan, not of God. This is why every trinitarian must ultimately admit that the trinity is not explicitly stated in the Bible. This is why every proof text that is given in support of Fundamental Belief #2 (the Trinity), in fact has nothing at all to say about a trinity of coequal, coeternal and consubstantial persons making up a single god.

You quote Ellen White as saying there are three persons in the Godhead… that’s not quite correct. Sister White wrote that there are three living persons in the heavenly trio. In that same letter, she says:

“The Father is all the fulness of the Godhead bodily and is invisible to mortal sight.” 21LtMs, Ms 21, 1906, par. 9

“The Son is all the fulness of the Godhead manifested. The Word of God declares Him to be “the express image of His person.” 21LtMs, Ms 21, 1906, par. 10

“The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fulness of the Godhead…” 21LtMs, Ms 21, 1906, par. 11

It is important to note that never does EGW tell us that “Godhead” is a club into which only three individuals have membership. Any concordance will define what Godhead is… it is divinity. Godhead is synonymous with divine attributes. It is not synonymous with trinity. With that understood, then let’s look at the above quote closely:

–She says that the Father IS all the fulness of the Godhead bodily
–She says that the Son IS all the fulness of the Godhead manifested
–She says that the Comforter is IN all the fulness of the Godhead.

If the Father IS all the fullness… and the Son IS all the fullness… but the Spirit is IN all the fullness, then she is simply restating what Scripture plainly reveals so plainly – Both the Father and the Son possess the same Spirit. It is an attribute of their divinity (Godhead). The Spirit is Holy because it belongs to a holy God, the Father. The Father has given his Holy Spirit to his only begotten Son. Let’s read it from the Bible to confirm:

Acts 2:32-33  This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.  (33)  Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, AND HAVING RECEIVED OF THE FATHER THE PROMISE OF THE HOLY GHOST, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

–notice that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost was a result of the Father giving the Son the promise of his Spirit in such great measure that it sheds forth from Christ upon his disciples. Let’s look at another text:

Titus 3:5-6  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;  (6)  WHICH HE SHED ON US ABUNDANTLY THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR SAVIOUR;
–If you read in context, you’ll find that it is the Father that gives to us his Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ.

I thank you that you have the spiritual sensitivity to fear for my salvation. That indicates that your heart is tender and receptive to seek after that which is truth. If that is the case and you want the truth, then please consider how it is possible that the Holy Spirit could be a third individual or person of a triune god, when we are informed that the Holy Spirit is Christ himself.

The Saviour is our Comforter. This I have proved Him to be. 7LtMs, Ms 20, 1892, par. 6

Christ is to be known by the blessed name of Comforter. “The Comforter,” said Christ to His disciples, “which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you, Peace I leave with you, My peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.” [John 14:26, 27.] 17LtMs, Ms 7, 1902, par. 10

“While Jesus ministers in the sanctuary above, He is still by His Spirit the minister of the church on earth.” DA 166.2

“They have one God and one Saviour; and one Spirit—the Spirit of Christ” 9T 189.3

How is it possible to reconcile these and countless other similar statements she makes if you tenaciously cling to a trinitarian god – a god that is nowhere explicitly described in Scripture? Yet, if we allow Scripture to mean what it says, and accept that the Father is the only true God (John 17:3), and that He gave to his Son the “oil of gladness” above his fellows (Hebrews 1:9), and that Christ received of the Father the promise of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit which He then sheds forth upon us (Acts 2:33 & Titus 3:6), then these statements from Sister White are perfectly reconcilable without mental gymnastics.

Christ is the comforter. This is plain language. How then can the Holy Spirit be the third person of the Godhead? It is actually quite simple. Each time that Sister White made such a statement (a total of five times in her lifetime), “third person” was always lower case. It wasn’t until many years after her death that “third person” was mysteriously capitalized to reflect the changing attitude of who the god of Seventh-day Adventism is. Christ frequently spoke of himself in the third person, referring to himself as the Son of Man, and even he and him. We are informed of the following:

“The Holy Spirit is Christ’s representative, but divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof.” DA 669.2

What does divested mean? It means to be rid of something… literally, it means to take off (di-) a garment (-vestment). Where are we told that a third being of a triune god, a separate individual from Jesus Christ was ever vested with the personality of humanity? Nowhere. Only Christ took on himself the form of a servant and became like us so that he might be in all points tempted like as we are. When Christ ascended to heaven, did he suddenly leave behind his human form? No. We are informed that his hands will forever bear the marks of his crucifixion. How then is Christ able to be present bodily in heaven, ministering in the Most Holy, while concurrently present as the minister of the church on earth? It is by his Holy Spirit which He received from the Father. The Holy Spirit is the third person of divinity (Godhead). It is the very mind of Christ, but without the encumbrance of humanity. It is the means by which Christ, now and forever in a human body, can be present everywhere. This is the truth about the identity and personality of the Holy Spirit. You may know it to be the truth because it does no harm to anything that has been provided to us through God’s inspired word. In contrast, if you refuse to take these clear statements because your mind has been trained to only believe that god is a trinity, then your only option is to cast these clear statements aside and come back with only a handful other quotes that can only support the error of a trinity through assumption, supposition, and non-contextual interpretation. I pray you will not choose this second option, because it is the same method that the leadership and people of Jerusalem used to ignore the warnings of the prophets.

Blessings.

I have fellowshipped with my separated brethren [Israel and Judah] in Adventism and have observed that on both sides of the divide, the sins of the INDIVIDUAL leaders and members are inherent in BOTH camps [Jer. 17:9; Rev. 3:14-21]. Wheat and tares will co-exist [Matthew 13] till the lovely Jesus does the separating during the NSL crisis [1T 608; GC 608]. Fact. During the sifting time, in both camps, “many a star that we have admired for its brilliancy will then go out in darkness” [5T 81; PK 188].

While all of this mudslinging has been in operation since 1863, when the SDA Church was formed, the needle or dial reflecting the FINISHED WORK [Rom. 9:28] has not moved even 1 micron or angstrom. Fact. “The work is really retrograding instead of advancing as God designs it should” [6T 420.1.4]. Fact. ALL 10 of the virgins were asleep [Matthew 25]! Wake up Israel. Wake up Judah. Wake up SDA denomination. Wake up Independent Ministries. “The new birth is a RARE experience in this age of the world” [7A 299.7.1]. Few SDAs in either camp are converted. Fact.

Let us ALL go back to the Source of Healing for we are all deplorable [SC 64,65]. Fact. May the lovely Jesus give to Zion [Israel + Judah] the FR and the LR that He may at last “FINISH THE WORK, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth” [Rom. 9:28].

With kindest regards, I am

Michael Taylor, DC, CME, MABS
•The Peoples’ Dok-tor
•Lay Pastor/Teacher