I firmly reject your statement that “The GC should have NEVER made any kind of statement for or against the vaccines”. Instead, the GC should have issued a stern warning to the church to avoid these horrible injections at all costs.

Hi Austin,

Thank you again for providing the references that you sent. I’ve looked at each of them and was either previously familiar with them or else read them in their full context.

The first quote from 21LtMs, Ms 95, 1906, par. 29 is a very interesting and unique (one of a kind) quote that I’ve not seen before. I found that it is from a sermon delivered on October 20, 1906 of which stenographic notes were taken. I frequently refer to Sister White’s sermons, but always try to bear in mind that it was not written by her hand and is therefore subject to the possibility of misrepresentations of what she actually said, or intended to say. Because only stenographic notes were taken of her sermons, those notes generally no longer exist and thus there usually are no scans available for further study – not that further of study of a stenographic clerk’s notes would necessarily yield any great results. Sister White did not have an opportunity to review those notes before they were posted to the EGW website as she would have done with a work that was either sent out as a letter, article or a full book while she was alive. Her repeated council to us was to refer to her published writings and not to what others report that she said:

“And now to all who have a desire for truth I would say: Do not give credence to unauthenticated reports as to what Sister White has done or said or written. If you desire to know what the Lord has revealed through her, read her published works. Are there any points of interest concerning which she has not written, do not eagerly catch up and report rumors as to what she has said. — 5T 696.1

“I am now looking over my DIARIES and COPIES OF LETTERS written for several years back, commencing before I went to Europe, before you were born. I have the most precious matter to reproduce and place before the people in testimony form. While I am able to do this work, the people must have these things to revive past history, that they may see that THERE IS ONE STRAIGHT CHAIN OF TRUTH, WITHOUT ONE HERETICAL SENTENCE, in that which I have written. This, I am instructed, is to be a living letter to all in regard to my faith.” 20LtMs, Lt 329a, 1905, par. 3

Thus, when there is an apparent “contradiction” between a stenographic record and a published writing, the published writing takes precedence – I hope you can agree that’s a reasonable conclusion that does no harm to the validity and inspiration of the Spirit of Prophecy. The next thing I’ve already noted is that this quote is singular (as far as I’m aware) in all of her writings and sermons. She never confirms this statement of three “beings” in any of her work published in her lifetime. I think, without intending to offend, that this is not sufficient evidence to categorize as a “clearly stated” doctrine. I generally look to apply the same principle stated in Scripture to her writings… “In the mouth of two and three witnesses.” Here are some quotes from some of her published works that seem to indicate differently from what was recorded in the notes from the sermon you provided:

“Before the entrance of evil, there was peace and joy throughout the universe. All was in perfect harmony with the Creator’s will. Love for God was supreme, love for one another impartial. Christ the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father,—one in nature, in character, and in purpose,—the ONLY BEING in all the universe that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. By Christ, the Father wrought in the creation of all heavenly beings. “By him were all things created, that are in Heaven, … whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers;” [Colossians 1:16.] and to Christ, equally with the Father, all Heaven gave allegiance.” GC88 493.1

The Father and Christ… Christ is the ONLY being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God the Father.

“Lucifer in heaven, before his rebellion, was a high and exalted angel, NEXT IN HONOR TO GOD’S DEAR SON. His countenance, like those of the other angels, was mild and expressive of happiness. His forehead was high and broad, showing a powerful intellect. His form was perfect; his bearing noble and majestic. A special light beamed in his countenance and shone around him brighter and more beautiful than around the other angels; yet Christ, God’s dear Son, had the pre-eminence over all the angelic host. He was one with the Father before the angels were created. Lucifer was envious of Christ, and gradually assumed command which devolved on Christ alone.” SR 13.1

Again, the Father and Christ… then next in honor (before sin), Lucifer.

To avoid any misconceptions, let me say plainly – I believe in the Holy Spirit and by no means am I suggesting that EGW didn’t believe in the Holy Spirit. The problem is that many today have a misconception of what Sister White believed and wrote about the identity of God and more specifically the identity of the Holy Spirit because we have been conditioned by the church leadership to adopt a three-fold God. The evidence clearly reveals that the leadership doesn’t really care whether you think that the three-in-one God is a Trinity, meaning three coequal, coeternal and consubstantial persons (more like personalities) which make up one God being (as you correctly noted, the orthodox view of the Trinity which is defined by the Roman Catholic Church and which is the official position of the SDA church as confirmed by the Biblical Research Institute); or whether you think in tri-theistic terms, meaning one God composed of three divine beings which are of one purpose but are each independently divine, all knowing, eternal and all-powerful without being dependent on one of the others to supply any of these characteristics (this is what I have found that the majority of SDA laity believe without knowing that the denomination’s official position is different than their own). The leadership are content to have you accept either position, so long as you believe in some variant of three. This is very odd because at the very core of the matter is a different God, and the God that we worship has everything to do with salvation, otherwise we could rightfully worship Baal and expect salvation. Which one is the true God and which is the false God? That’s a trick question because they’re both false gods; and this is the reason why either position is accepted in the church apostate. Yet, if someone confesses that there is only one true God, the Father (John 17:3) and that he has a literal only begotten Son (John 3:16) to whom He has given ALL things (John 3:35), including his original, unborrowed and underived life (John 5:26), then a business meeting is called by the church pastor to see what must be done to squelch this vile heresy.

The Holy Spirit is undeniable… the question is, who is the Holy Spirit?

““If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering.” [James 1:5, 6.] “And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him because we keep his commandments and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.” [1 John 3:22.] “And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children keep yourselves from idols.” [1 John 5:20, 21.] The Lord is soon to come. We want that complete and perfect understanding which the Lord alone can give. It is not safe to catch the spirit from another. We want the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ. If we commune with God, we shall have strength and grace and efficiency.” 9LtMs, Lt 66, 1894, par. 18

“THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST, which is sent to all men to give them sufficiency, that through His grace we might be complete in Him. The Lord has provided that we should always be under the teaching and influence of the Holy Spirit. We shall then discover that the law of God is holy, just, and good, and we would learn to delight in the law of God. We love the requirements of the law, and from our hearts render obedience to its requirements.” 9LtMs, Lt 11a, 1894, par. 23

“The Saviour is our Comforter. This I have proved Him to be. I do not understand why I am so afflicted. At first I tried to reason out why I did not have strength to bear my testimony to the people in this country. But I try no longer. I have given my way and my will into the hands of God, for He knows what is best for me. It is not the manifestation of His great and awful majesty and unparalleled power that will leave us without excuse if we refuse Him our love and obedience. It is the love, the compassion, the patience, the longsuffering that He has shown which will witness against those who do not offer Him the willing service of their lives.” 7LtMs, Ms 34, 1892, par. 30

“The Holy Spirit is Christ’s representative, but divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof. Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally. Therefore it was for their interest that He should go to the Father, and send the Spirit to be His successor on earth. No one could then have any advantage because of his location or his personal contact with Christ. By the Spirit the Saviour would be accessible to all. In this sense He would be nearer to them than if He had not ascended on high.” DA 669.2

Note that in the DA quote above, the Holy Spirit is… divested of the personality of humanity. If the Holy Spirit is divested, meaning to be rid of, or stripped of humanity, then that necessarily means that the Holy Spirit was at a prior point in time vested of humanity. That is what she says in the very next sentence in describing Christ as being cumbered with humanity! This reveals the continuity of understanding in the Testimonies of Jesus.

But some might ask, if the Holy Spirit is Christ, then what was it that came down from heaven like a dove?

It is very hard for us to let go of concepts that are deeply entrenched in our minds by a lifetime of tireless repetition by those in positions of leadership. Perhaps that’s why we ask questions like this. As we ask the question, we must resolve in our hearts that we will accept the plain and clear statements from inspiration and then use the opportunity of finding the answer to the question for the purpose seeing how our preconceived ideas may have been mislead or misdirected; keeping in mind that we have all been subject to brainwashing/conditioning/programming. If we don’t make this resolution, we run the risk of trying to turn the prophet, and even the scriptures, against themselves by simply drawing from a different quote whose wording better suits our ideas. What came down at Christ’s baptism?

“Never had angels listened to such a prayer. They were solicitous to bear to the praying Redeemer messages of assurance and love. But no; the Father himself will minister to his Son. Direct from the throne proceeded the light of the glory of God. The heavens were opened, and beams of light and glory proceeded therefrom and assumed the form of a dove, in appearance like burnished gold. The dove-like form was emblematical of the meekness and gentleness of Christ.” YI March 1, 1874, par. 4

Thus, we can see that it was not a third being, but rather the glory of God, which I don’t believe is incorrect to describe as the power of God.

The second quote you provided from 20LtMs, Ms 162, 1905, Par. 32 identifies three powers in heaven… Father (God), Son (Jesus Christ), and Holy Ghost (spirit of God and Jesus Christ [Mat 10:20, Gal 4:6, Rom 8:9]). There should be no question that there are three powers in heaven. God is spirit (John 4:24), yet he has a form (EW 77.1) because Jesus is the express image of the Father’s person (Heb 1:3). The Father imparted his Holy Spirit upon Christ upon his ascension, and then in turn, Christ imparts that same Spirit, which he possesses by virtue of it being given to him by the Father, upon his disciples. This was alluded to in the prior quote from DA 669.2 and is more specifically and clearly stated in Acts 2:33 and Titus 3:5-6. See also Heb 1:9.

Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Titus 3:5-6 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

It is clear that the Father exists and has power regardless of where his Holy Spirit is imparted. This is a characteristic of Godhead (divinity) which none of God’s creation possesses, so far as we are aware. Christ, as the begotten Son of God, inherited the same divinity (Godhead) that characterizes the Father. It is also clear from Scripture that Christ received the gift of the Holy Spirit from the Father and it therefore belongs to him and is rightfully referred to as the Spirit of Christ (Phil 1:19). Thus, when Christ sends the Holy Spirit as his successor, he continues to exist, even in his humanity, with power in Heaven. Are there three powers in heaven? Undoubtedly. Note that by no means does this automatically reveal that there are three beings in a very exclusive club called “the Godhead” in heaven. That would be reading into the statement what is not there and using the word “Godhead” in a way that it’s definition does not support.

The third quote you provided from 21LtMs, Ms 21, 1906, par. 11 falls into the same category as the one we just evaluated above. The only difference is that it makes reference to three persons. The mind which has been trained to believe in a three-fold god (either Trinitarian or tri-theistic) immediately latches on to the three persons statement as the proof of their position, while at the same time forgetting about, or worse yet, ignoring the hundreds, even thousands of evidences from Scripture and the published writings of Sister White which inform us that there is one God, the Father, and one Lord Jesus Christ (1 Cor 8:6) who is the Son of God. We are trained to believe in three God’s or otherwise a three-headed God, while at the same time doing what Sister White describes below:

“As the special work of Satan has been to separate the Father and the Son, he has so blinded the eyes of the Christian world that they now turn from the Father and from His law and dwell wholly upon Christ.” 10MR 156.4

“In the popular churches, we hear but little except, ‘Do you love Jesus?’ The love of the Father is scarcely mentioned; it is only Christ, Christ. God the Father has given unto man the greatest gift that Heaven held. ‘Behold what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God.’ I believe that the heart of the great God is touched and moved by the condition of sinners today, as when he gave his Son to die for the sins of the world. Christ says, ‘I and my Father are one.’ (Ellen G. White, Review and Herald, 4th May 1876, ‘Camp-meeting at Eagle Lake)

The word “God” as used in scripture and Sister White’s writings, predominantly identifies a singular being. It is the identity of an individual who is the originator of all things. “God” is not a word describing a condition or a characteristic except in a very few cases (I think only twice). This is why the Bible says so many times and in so many different ways that God is One, for example:

Deuteronomy 4:35
Deuteronomy 6:4
Ps 83:18
Isa 42:8
Isa 45:5-6
Jeremiah 10:10
Mal. 2:10.

Taking hold of this truth, we can then ask ourselves, how have my preconceived ideas and conditioning caused me to misunderstand or misapply the meaning of the words I have just read (for instance the three persons of the heavenly trio). Is there a person of the Father? Yes. The person of the Father is evident in that he has spoken with his voice from heaven and he sits upon a throne. Is there a person of Christ? Yes. His person in human form can now be found in heaven, at all times interceding on our behalf before the mercy seat. Is there a person of the Holy Spirit? Yes! The person of the Holy Spirit is perceived by God’s people. We are instructed to remain silent with regard to just what the Holy Spirit is, but we are very clearly informed as to who the person of the Holy Spirit is. It is Christ, but only the divine nature of Christ. His humanity dictates that his physical presence may only be in one place at a time, but his Holy Spirit, which is divested of humanity, does not have that limitation. In this way, we can reconcile all statements which Scripture and the Spirit of Prophecy state without needing to “forget” about certain inconvenient statements that don’t fit our model. We must never play the game of trying to find quotes from inspiration that contradict in order to prove our position. The contradiction lies within us and we must reconcile ourselves to agree with inspiration.

The fourth quote from 14LtMs, Ms 66, 1899, par. 11 is another sermon given by Sister White at the Avondale church of which stenographic notes were taken. We have already addressed the use of notes versus her actual writings. Beyond that, it is also a matter of context. Of course, the greater context includes all that we have seen so far, plus the entirety of all the rest of God’s testimony through his prophets which must be in agreement, but it also includes the context of the quote itself. If we read a little before and after the selected PORTION of the paragraph quoted, it is evident that that Sister White was not referring to a separate individual called the Holy Spirit, but to the Lord. Let’s look at the full paragraph:

“The Lord says this because He knows it is for our good. He would build a wall around us, to keep us from transgression, so that His blessing and love may be bestowed on us in rich measure. This is the reason we have established a school here. The Lord instructed us that this was the place in which we should locate, and we have had every reason to think that we are in the right place. We have been brought together as a school, and we need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds, unseen by human eyes, that the Lord God is our Keeper and Helper. He hears every word we utter and knows every thought of the mind. 14LtMs, Ms 66, 1899, par. 11

We have previously established that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ, thus, it is undeniably true that if Christ and the Father are persons, then their Holy Spirit which they send to us and speaks to us, is a person… it is their person, only separated from their physical person.

Let’s see what other statements Sister White makes in her written work that lend understanding to the notes of her sermon we have just read… who is “walking through these grounds, unseen by human eyes” and “hears every word we utter”:

“Christ walks unseen through our streets. With messages of mercy He comes to our homes. With all who are seeking to minister in His name, He waits to co-operate. He is in the midst of us, to heal and to bless, if we will receive Him.” MH 107.2

“How few realize that Jesus, unseen, is walking by their side. How ashamed many would be to hear His voice speaking to them, and to know that He heard all their foolish, common talk…” 10LtMs, Lt 57, 1895, par. 34

I have been instructed that we should lead the sick in our institutions to expect large things because of the faith of the physician in the great Healer who, in the years of His earthly ministry went through the towns and villages of the land and healed all who came to Him. None were turned empty away; He healed them all. Let the sick realize that, although unseen, Christ is present to bring relief and healing. 23LtMs, Lt 82, 1908, par. 14

“Jesus desires to make celestial harmony in your soul. Read His words, not with discouragement, but with confidence and hope. Listen to the blessed words which God speaks to you. Walking with Christ means to believe that, THOUGH UNSEEN, CHRIST IS WALKING WITH YOU.” — Letter 104, August 4, 1901, to E. K. Beaman. {TDG 225.7}

“Remember that JESUS IS BESIDE YOU WHEREVER YOU GO, noting your actions and LISTENING TO YOUR WORDS.” (E.G. White, The Youth Instructor, Feb. 4, 1897)

“Go forth in the name of CHRIST, REMEMBERING, THAT-HE IS YOUR COMPANION, THAT EVERY PRAYER, EVERY WORD, EVERY SONG IS HEARD BY HIM. The message of the soon coming of the Lord with power and great glory will bring conviction to many hearts.” {RH, February 4, 1904, pg. 8}

“The LORD JESUS standing BY THE SIDE OF THE CANVASSER, WALKING WITH THEM, is the chief worker. If we recognize CHRIST as the ONE who is with us to prepare the way, THE HOLY SPIRIT BY OUR SIDE WILL MAKE IMPRESSIONS IN JUST THE LINES NEEDED.” {Manual for Canvassers, p. 40}{E. G. White, Colporteur Ministry, p. 107}

Please don’t let it escape your notice how Jesus is interchanged with the Holy Spirit in the above quote. Remember that Christ is in heaven in the Holy of Holies, so it is only by his Holy Spirit that He walks by the side of the canvasser

“By the Spirit the Father and the Son will come and make their abode with you.” {E. G. White, Bible Echo and Signs of the Times, January 15, 1893 par. 8}

Therefore, we may rightly conclude that it is “by the Spirit” we can have the unseen presence of Christ or the unseen presence of the Father and the Son together.

I believe that the last three quotes provided in your reply are all addressed by the preceding, so I won’t belabor the matter. However, I will say that we have only scratched the surface. As I read scripture and the Spirit of Prophecy, it is incredible how these truths now jump off the page at me. I cannot comprehend the extent of my previous blindness, nor my reluctance to let go of my past treasured beliefs, which in truth, I had not studied out to see if it was so. All I can say now is to God be all glory, because he winks at the times of our ignorance. I’m always looking now for new opportunities to correct my thinking to be in agreement with God’s word.

I pray that this will be of some use to you any others which endure to end of this long comment. Blessings.

Eric

Thank you Austin. I’m looking at them and will get back to you with any ?’s.

Here you go Eric,

“Here is where the work of the Holy Ghost comes in, after your baptism. You are baptized in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. You are raised up out of the water to live henceforth in newness of life—to live a new life. You are born unto God, and you stand under the sanction and the power of the three holiest beings in heaven, who are able to keep you from falling. You are to reveal that you are dead to sin; your life is hid with Christ in God. Hidden “with Christ in God”—wonderful transformation. [Colossians 3:3.] This is a most precious promise. When I feel oppressed and hardly know how to relate myself toward the work that God has given me to do, I just call upon the three great Worthies, and say: You know I cannot do this work in my own strength. You must work in me, and by me, and through me, sanctifying my tongue, sanctifying my spirit, sanctifying my words, and bringing me into a position where my spirit shall be susceptible to the movings of the Holy Spirit of God upon my mind and character.” {21LtMs, Ms 95, 1906, par. 29}
“I am instructed to say that the leading men in our institutions should make a much more favorable record than some have made in the past, or God will certainly bring them into judgment. It is wholly unacceptable to God for us to make a display in any line of our work. It is dishonoring to Him for His people to do for display that which piles debts upon His institutions. God requires truth in the inward parts. The church is pledged to honor God. When the members took part in the solemn rite of baptism, they took a solemn vow to be separate from the world and to live unto Christ, to be loyal and obedient to Him. They were buried with Christ in baptism, in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. These three powers of heaven will be their strength and efficiency at all times if they are faithful to their baptismal vow.” {20LtMs, Ms 162, 1905, Par. 32}

“The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fulness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.” {21LtMs, Ms 21, 1906, par. 11}

“The Lord instructed us that this was the place in which we should locate, and we have had every reason to think that we are in the right place. We have been brought together as a school, and we need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds, unseen by human eyes, that the Lord God is our Keeper and Helper. He hears every word we utter and knows every thought of the mind.” {14LtMs, Ms 66, 1899, par. 11}
“The Holy Spirit always leads to the written Word. The Holy Spirit is a person; for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. When this witness is borne, it carries with it its own evidence. At such times we believe and are sure that we are the children of God. What strong evidence of the power of truth we can give to believers and unbelievers when we can voice the words of John, “We have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.” [1 John 4:16.] {21LtMs, Ms 20, 1906, par. 31}

“The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. “For what man knoweth the things of a man save the spirit of man, which is in him; even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.” [1 Corinthians 2:11.] {21LtMs, Ms 20, 1906, par. 32}

“We are to realize that if we work the works of Christ, we will not unite with the world. The Holy Spirit will give us a clear, distinct message to the world. If we will come into close relation to Christ, we shall have a part to act in carrying forward the work of present truth for this time. We are to co-operate with the three highest powers in heaven—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; and these powers will work through us, making us workers together with God. But when a man goes forth in human sufficiency, then the enemy comes in and inspires him, and he knows not what manner of spirit he is of. The Lord saw this and instructed me that, at the General Conference held in Oakland, I should hold no conversation with you.” {18LtMs, Lt 253a, 1903, par. 18}

Let me know if you need anything else 🙂

Love in Christ,

austin

What you said:

“The church that Sister White foresaw passing through to the return of Christ has nothing to do with General Conference led, denominational Seventh-day Adventism. Rather, the church that she constantly makes reference to are those people who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus Christ. If we look to the denomination as our stronghold, despite the repeated evidences that she has left God and forsaken his Son, then we will find ourselves in precisely the same condition that the multitudes of Jews found themselves in when Rome came and utterly destroyed their beloved city.” A M E N

Exactly Eric! The SDA church has fallen just like the jewish nation did.

The work moves on to those who are obedient – the 11th hour church (Matthew 20:1-16)

It has nothing to do with SDA’s, but everything to do with those who keep His commandments and have the faith of Jesus – if they come out of the fallen churches to follow the Lamb withersoever he goeth.

Revelation 14:12 “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.”

Revelation 14:4 “These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.”

I will get back to you on the Godhead quotes 🙂 thanks

If you need to reach out my email is biblicalandfound@gmail.com

Exactly Eric! The SDA church has fallen just like the jewish nation did.

The work moves on to those who are obedient – the 11th hour church (Matthew 20:1-16)

It has nothing to do with SDA’s, but everything to do with those who keep His commandments and have the faith of Jesus – if they come out of the fallen churches to follow the Lamb withersoever he goeth.

Revelation 14:12 “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.”

Revelation 14:4 “These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.”

Nini,

You definitely didn’t read the tens and tens of quotations from Sister white on sdaapostasy.org I see then.